30 January, 2007

Gwen Shamblin & Me

A few days ago, Slarti pointed out that some of my diet tips were straight out of the Weigh Down Workshop. I feel bad about that, because I didn't mean to lead anyone astray. I've been thinking about it for several days now, and need to set the record straight. Now seems like a good time, for reasons that may become clear later.

I first participated in Weigh Down somewhere between 1997 and 1999. (Years bleed together after awhile.) I bought the book and read it and loved the idea behind it. Surely Jesus would love it if I were skinny! While parts of the book seemed a little bit insane, I overlooked the Crazy in favour of the nuggets of weight loss wisdom. One piece of Crazy has stuck with me for years, however. In the book, Shamblin claims that she is so in touch with The Holy Spirit that she needs never to set an alarm clock. Jesus wakes her up whenever she needs to be out of bed. Hallelujah.

That kind of thinking has always bothered me. Yes, Jesus loves us and provides for us, but he also gives us things like electricity and batteries and stores which sell alarm clocks for a purpose. Pray to God but row for shore, brothers.

In the fall of 2000 I began working for a division of Thomas Nelson publishers--the original publishers of the Weigh Down Diet book. They dropped Shamblin as an author when she denied the Trinity. I began to wonder if perhaps Jesus had gotten her up too early on a few days, leading to sleep depravation and a resultant case of mild insanity. But I didn't really care about her one way or another.

Then I began to work with a woman I'll call Noel. This lady is perhaps the sweetest and kindest co-worker I've ever had. She was also overweight. For years she had worked as Gwen's assistant but then was fired in part because she was overweight. Granted I have only the word of Noel and other coworkers for this, but the several times I've called Remnant Fellowship for clarification, calls were not returned. Now, I can understand a diet peddler wanting, unlike Caeser, to surround herself with men and women who are lean. But for Shamblin, ostensibly a Christian who taught that God loves all people fat or thin, to fire a woman because of her weight was a travesty. Surely if she truly cared for Noel as a human being--and if her diet truly worked--Shamblin would have taken Noel under her wing and worked with her as together they pursued thinness through Jesus. But no. Shamblin was more concerned with book sales and the building of her Remnant Fellowship.

I often drive past Remnant when I take a scenic route into Franklin. It's a not-cheap building on a highly-valuable piece of land. I always wonder at this--at churches who purport to do the work of God yet see fit to spend money on earthly treasures. I suppose they expect to pay for part of the church with proceeds from their lawsuit against Rafael Martinez for libel. In addition to suing Martinez, they are also suing an anonymous blogger.

I can't help but wonder if Jesus does have a special hotline to Shamblin. I mean, he's told the rest of Christians to not sue other Christians. Apparently he's told Shamblin that it's okay to proceed otherwise.

I liked her better when she was just telling me to take half my restaurant meal home in a box.

118 Comments:

At 3:43 PM, January 30, 2007, Blogger Amy said...

yikes.

a couple of years ago I read the first couple of chapters of Weigh Down. I never got in a group or anything, or even finished the book--just adopted a few of the tips that made perfect sense. learn to listen to your body's natural signals; eat only when you're hungry and stop when you're full. eat more slowly so you recognize when you're satisfied. etc.

just the simple portion control made me realize how much more I was eating than I needed to be satisfied. I thought it was all brilliant because I could still eat pizza and chocolate and whatever, and I lost weight slowly and steadily and kept it off--sustainable, realistic, etc.

I still think all those are great principles--I had no idea Shamblin was so wacko until the last few months. I guess, what's that saying about even the blind squirrels finding a nut occasionally?

 
At 5:45 PM, January 30, 2007, Blogger Slartibartfast said...

Amy's right. Some of the principles are sound common-sense ideas. Listening to your body's signals is one. I still take her religious take that there are no such things a "clean" or "unclean" foods to heart. That jibes perfectly with my engineer's brain: It's all about how many calories you take in vs how many calories you burn.

But when reading her book, you could see the warning signs. Her pronouncement that if you weren't a hand-raisin' Pentecostal, you weren't a true worshipper. All that talk of being "In Love" with Jesus - if I had to talk like that in church, you better darn well bet that me and the guys would be grunting a lot and saying "How bout those Titans?" more than usual.

But just as one of the worlds greatest hedonists, Freddy Mercury, made some of the most magical, inspirational, even quasi-Christian music, I believe God can use anybody any way He wishes. When it comes to her basic plan, I do believe Gwen has a pipeline to the Truth.

But if she'd only stopped there, many more probably would have followed her advice; now she is written off as a nutbag.

 
At 7:27 PM, January 30, 2007, Blogger Malia said...

The things I know, I can not say here.

We can talk about this in person sometime.

All I'll say is Praise the Lord and pass the brownies!

 
At 8:58 PM, January 30, 2007, Blogger Lynnster said...

"Yes, Jesus loves us and provides for us, but he also gives us things like electricity and batteries and stores which sell alarm clocks for a purpose."

Snicker. Bless you for stating this POV so wonderfully, Miz C.!

 
At 10:20 PM, January 30, 2007, Blogger Ginger said...

I did Weigh Down at my church back in '98 or so. It really did help to have pointed out that simple principle of eating until you're full and then stop. I still try to do that today.

However, that woman is an nut. She even looks whacked out. Plus, there was some controversy awhile back with teaching discipline, er, child abuse at their cult, er, church.It all started out good and then went straight to ....

 
At 10:39 PM, January 30, 2007, Blogger Kat Coble said...

A lot of the foundational principles are sound common sense, and they work for me. My favourite of them all is to not save the best for last.

I would love to see someone publish a Weigh Down book without the CRAZY parts. A 'Slimmed Down' version, if you will.

And yes, Ginger, you're totally right. The woman does look like a nut. According to the Channel 5 story the parents of the little boy are undergoing their trial for his death.

 
At 7:59 PM, February 01, 2007, Anonymous sbk said...

Portion control is a lot of what Weight Watchers is about. I too love the idea that you can eat anything you want--just be careful how much. When my hubby saw that his "24 points" a day could be a 12 pack he decided it was a diet he could do!

On Shamblin I must confess. Tuesday there were about 100 cop cars, a crime scene investigation unit and a SWAT team in a driveway between her glorious mansion and the one next to hers on Franklin Road (just North of the church.) Brentwood phone lines were hot with talk of a mysterious murder/suicide. My confession is that I assumed things had caught up to ole Gwen. Turned out not it wasn't even her house, but a farm cottage nestled out of view from the road that I had forgotten was there. Some poor bloke was having what was probably an acohol induced really bad day, and it turned out a bunch of nothing. Big excitement for Brentwood--until the sheriff got arrested the next day...

I just can't see a good end game for Shamblin at this point.

 
At 9:17 PM, February 01, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm a regular reader of you, Kat, and you link to me, but honestly for fear of a lawsuit, I'm posting anonymously.

I would highly recommend that people read this article for an on-the-ground view of what things can look like at Remnant. Or just Google Gwen Shamblin and Cult and that will give more info

 
At 9:31 AM, February 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm posting this anonymously since I am a recent walkout of Remnant Fellowship Church. I had lost 20-some pounds doing Weigh Down for a year before I decided to officially join RF. Things turned scary as soon as I did. I didn't go through huge scary situations like some people blog about online, but probably because I only made it six months in the church. What I did go through was scary enough for me and I finally left.

Gwen had a great thing going with the Weigh Down Diet if she had just left it at that. Even after leaving the church, I am not abandoning the WD principles because I have eaten this way for a year and a half and it's probably mere habit now!

In the church they constantly stress being "Spirit led." I never felt Spirit led at all inside the church. Only on eggshells constantly to please the members and worrying my kids are not going to measure up. What took the cake was planning to host everyone in my home for the online service and being accused by a local member that I had not checked with her husband (authority) first. What???

That, together with lots of other unsettling things that happened, was enough to send me packing. I had had a few of what they call attacks from Satan telling me to get the heck out of this church and run as fast as I can away. It happened a few times where I felt it in my gut that it wasn't right, but I dismissed it as the enemy. Now that I finally listened, I realize I was being Spirit led finally and I was finally obeying!

Any time you have any doubts at all, it is dismissed as an attack and not to listen because the enemy knows we're onto something and he doesn't want people to find the true church. They give you the feeling that you are the called-out and elite and you're special because you have found this church, so how can you reject it?

There were many times I would drive to work and listen to Gwen's cd's, and when she would talk about, "Beware of false prophets. They come to you as wolves in sheep's clothing," I would always find myself thinking, "She is talking about herself and she doesn't even know it." This is when I was a full-fledged member!

Most of the people in the church are great people and very nice and just kind-hearted people. However, there are some that take on this zombie-like appearance and are almost like Stepford wives, but the men and kids too. The local members here who took on the leadership role, they were hard to be around because they wouldn't talk about anything else but the church and Gwen, and we felt like heathens if we tried to talk about something else. I always felt like I was being watched and then prepared for my "correction." There were a couple new members who joined right when I did, and they were pretty down-to-earth people then. But in this short time, I have seen them morph into the likeness of the others. I sent out an email to the locals to let them know we were leaving, and I got a couple brief, "Goodbye, nice knowing you," kind of emails. Apparently now I am more evil than I was before I knew "The Truth," and so I am sure that the leaders are telling everyone not to associate with me anymore, lest I lead them astray!

Since I left, though, I am much happier and finally feel Spirit led. We have already found a great church nearby and now I need to let God reprogram my mind to not hate everyone who isn't in Remnant anymore. How terrible...not very Christian at all...

Thanks for reading.
-K

 
At 3:03 PM, March 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, our family too has recently left Remnant Fellowship.
What a sweet bunch of lambs being led to the error of those who know NOT the scriptures nor the power of GOD..
The leadership refuses to see that they have something that belongs to GOD.... his people.
The followers take EVERYTHING that the leaders say as GOSPEL.
Yes, sadly even above Gods word.
God is allowing his displeasure and their counsel to be brought to rubble as anyone with eyes to seee can see....
As they now seek to sue another part of Gods family to re-gain their reputations , one can only marvel at their biblical ignorance...
We had gone to the "leaders" with our biblical questions all which were spurned by reactions to the tune of
"How dare "you" try to teach us, you who still need to lose 10 pounds and whose lives arent as holy, upright and perfect as ours"
How I wish I were exaggeratiing.
They never admit wrongdoing, even though we have caught them in actual lies.
No one dare share biblical truth outside of theirs, otherwise they are made to be ashamed, demonized and made to feel evil.
They will tell you plainly, WE DO NOT AGREE TO DISAGREE HERE...
YOU ARE EITHER with us 100% or go find another church...
I am paraphasing but honestly conveying what we were told.
This group is very in need of true light...
Every teaching begins and ends with "THIS IS THE REAL TRUTH"
Isnt this truth amazing*?!?!?! .
They behave like Pharisees towards others.
Blind to their pride and arrogance towards the family GOD has chosen, because of their faith and not their body size!
I pray blessings of mercy, for many feel trapped...
Some have even called but are too afraid to leave, you are TOLD, that if you leave GOD has sifted you out, because you have been found unworthy.
They truly believe that THEY are the only ones who have it right.
Even though GOD did not come through for them in the SMITH trail , even after all the prayers and lengthy fasts, still GOD said "NO"
He knows what happened to Jozef and he is allowing them to be punished for going too far.
And following the advice of a leadership who truly believes that if YOU PUNISH someone severely enough they will change and do what you say*
This is what has been promoted for years.
They belittle Gods people who choose NOT to be under THEIR authority.
Gods word clearly states
"The head of every woman is the man and the head of every man is
"leadership" OOPS NO , NO
The head of every man is CHRIST, and the head of CHRIST is GOD!"
So many would say things like, go to the leadership about where to live, what colors to paint, what job to take, some even said verbatim "I am so glad I no longer need to make my own decisions, I depend on leadership for eveything!"
They only allow the NIV version
They do not allow their followers to go to weddings or funerals in any other church.
They tell you that IF YOU DO, you are endorsing every evil practice in that church.
They seem to forget where Jesus, Paul, Peter, James and so many others went to teach the people, they forget completely 1 Cor 8, but then again when someones method of studying scripture is to play spiritual roulette by just letting the word fall open, what can we expect?
This is how they study!
Just let the bible fall open.
Instead of choosing Gods righteousness, they have hewn out their own.
From Romans 9
"For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

They manipulate people into behaving the way that makes Gwen look good and right.
Beautiful and thin is what she wants.
Because it is all about "Looking inward" not outward to the unsaved.
Evengelism towards anything other Remnant or Weighdown is NOT done.
They disregard everything that happened before you come to Remnant as dung...
Only Remnant has the power to change lives....
How very arrogant.
Perhaps, God is angry for they are stealing HIS praise, His people, and the access HE HAS given people through HIS SON, freely!
There are many other biblical errors that we found in our brief tenure at Remnant.
May God bless the good things among them and humble them to turn from this path of error, arrogance & thorns....
We told them it was wrong to sue Mr Martinez because of GODS word..
But it is apparent that Gwen believes she can go outside of Gods boundaries in this area and be ok....
After all, all her YES men and women fully agree that they need to sue to get their reputations back!
Poor Remnant, I hope that poor church doesnt lose any more softball games, she berated them unmercifully trying to find out WHO was sinning in the camp when they lose.
She belives that losing a game is because someone was sinning and God was angry.
It was so sad....
We exhort all Remnant members to
LOOK at the REAL fruit not the outward appearance.
Where are the manifestations of HOLY SPIRIT?
Is being thin, submissive to your hubby the fruit God desires?
Do we reconcile people to Remnant or Jesus Christ?
Do we preach Remnant or WeighDown or Jesus Christ?
Since Remnant is so favored by GOD, why did not God answer their YEARS of prayers for the Smiths?
Could it be that GOD did make HIS truth and judgement known?
God forbid, they could be wrong....
They are receiving back the exact measure of judgement they have meeted out to others as the precious words of Jesus said....
How I cry over these people who reject others and shame those who will not submit to them...
May God be glorified to intervene
and bring down this grave haughtiness....



All I can say is I share Jesus Christ, and HIS gospel of salvation
I want to spend all my days Lovings others, giving them the words which GOD desires.
Encouraging their faith and planting and watering so that God can bring the increase.

Instead of spending all my time looking INWARD, I want look UPWARD and outward at the needs of others and live to HIS glory and praise, led by HIS sirit of truth into all truth....

And I will pray always that God might show mercy on all our ignorance.....

 
At 5:48 PM, March 15, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

God bless you dear annonymous posters..I knew it was rough for those in the membership, but I had no idea it was this bad.

Do you think that this could become a Jim Jones/David Koresh situation? I can only imagine that now their defence mechanism is on high alert now to protect their precious church and practices?

 
At 8:44 PM, March 15, 2007, Anonymous Biblical View said...

No, I can only hope with all my heart that they will see these ungodly traits, unbiblical based practices and change....
I know God promises to continue the work he begins in each of us, till the DAY OF JESUS CHRIST...
While we have breath we have hope to change!
These folks have a real zeal for GOD and just as Paul who has such a zeal for GOD that he consented to the death of Christains and then forged a path to Jerusalem despite GODS warnings (after his conversion) Sometimes our passions
are just misdirected.
My only hope is that THE BODY OF CHRIST, Gods beautiful ekklesia can bring HIM joy as we seek to LOVE one another...
This chrch needs help, they have simply veered from the hOLY scriptures to the words of fallible man...
Making lots of rules and regulations that GOD has not ordained....
God has a way of humbling us and I pray that we all will grow up into a family that reflects HIS greatness..
I am thankful that I had a chance to be part of Remnant, it has helped me CLEAVE even tighter to The Holy Scriptures as my basis for life and practice...
Joyfully serving the one true GOD through Jesus Christ always...
biblical view

 
At 11:51 AM, March 20, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you are no longer in Remnant, let it go and leave them be. Find something else to do with your time.

 
At 4:17 PM, March 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We all have the freedom to voice our concerns, obviously people NEED to know the TRUTH, how wonderful to have time to use for God!
And sending out hope, warning and consolation for those who have been hurt and those who have turned from serving and hearkening to GOD, to serve and hearken onto Weigh Down and Remnant...

 
At 7:47 PM, March 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am not in but my younger sister is and it has been nothing but good for her. She has lost a lot of weight, a lot and is a totally selfless person now. 360 degree turn a round is what we have observed in her.

My sister was the most hard hearted person I knew until she discovered this Remnant Church.

That church cannot be that bad.

 
At 7:57 AM, March 24, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, there are good things but they come at the price of biblical integrity.

Why not join?

If it is so wonderful why are you hear searching it out?

Ask them what they feel other churches are???

If you attend another church, will your sister come to your wedding or funeral?

It looks great because the people do lose weight, do learn some of the ways God wants us to behave, but in essence robs GOD of the JOY are directing HIS people into all HIS fulness...

These souls are directed by the leadership.

They go to human leaders for everything you can imagine forfeiting the access to gOD we have been given by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

As long as your sister submits
all her will to them, she will do well there.

Go for a visit, tell them all GOD is doing for you OUTSIDE of Remnant.

You will soon see what EVERYONE who
has escaped this whimsical,magical, performance based Church is talking about....

Much love to you and your dear sister.....

 
At 6:12 PM, March 25, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a retired pastor from a church. So won't be joining. I can still only say my younger sister is happier, nicer, more giving, thinner, and closer to God.

 
At 7:54 PM, April 03, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obviously a retired pastor that does not know the signs of a cult when it hits him in the face.

Thinness is next to Godliness, I think I read that somewhere...The Bible? oh no...not the Bible, it was the gospel according to Gwen.

 
At 8:06 AM, April 04, 2007, Blogger BiblicalView said...

Gretings to all,
It is so hard to discern at times, my heart desires to think and hope the best in others...
We must strive together for the faith of the gospel and encourage one another to GODS glorious hope and the fulfilment of HID purposes for each of our lives.
RF is like a social club, I hate the word cult (anyone who disagrees with mainstream christianity is labeled as such)this group has some great aspects to it...
May God enlighten us all to behold the unbiblical walls we must tear down which prevent HIS TRUTH from bearing the fruit in our lives AND in the lives of others we impact.
The fruit of The SPIRIT is love, joy, peace, faith, goodness, kindness, meekness, self control and patience....

Biblical Integrity is VERY Important!
It is my ONLY complaint against
RF, the people there are wonderful
and devout, but just as Paul said
by inspiration of God in Romans 10:

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel (and for Remnant Fellowship) is, that they might be saved.

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we PREACH;

That if YOU WILL confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Thats our job, share the GOOD NEWS of Gods coming Kingdom with all!

I AM NOT TO preach my own church, or RF or WD, it is Jesus Christ I preach, HE alone is the mediator between GOD and man, HE alone can change our wretched lives into a glorious showplace of HIS will, only he can reconcile our hearts, lead us into all HIS fulness and ONLY HE is the WAY , TRUTH and LIFE to ALL who call upon him!

My love to you all,
Lisa

 
At 8:13 PM, April 04, 2007, Blogger BiblicalView said...

But by no means am I saying that this group does NOT exhibit cultlike tendencies, it does....
The way they speak about others and behave in an elitist and separist manner.
The following is an excerpt that is strikingly similar to what I, and many others did experience and see amongst these dear decieved brethren. We must also keep in mind, that they may do these things to protect the group because perhaps they do not trust that GOD will protect them from the persecution promised to all who will live uprightly...
I am not really sure about the agenda because they do good and not evil, I really think they are just immature in the Lords Word, they have very little biblical research and far more speculation.
The following is an accurate portrayal of noticable fact.
Milieu Control – simultaneous isolation/ rejection of external influences, outside resources and creation of new world order (new jerusalem)"ZION" of group’s vision

Demand For Purity – pressure to engage in a continual process of self-purification from all the group or LEADERSHIP deems impure and unholy, what they allow is "pure & clean" even indulgence in alcohol to the extent of being more than tipsy at feast and celebrations...

The Cult Of Confession – communal exercises to compel confession of failures, reinforce submission to authority, and discipline through shaming, fear and guilt

Mystical Manipulation – an exaltation of the group’s authority through an allegedly spontaneous, yet staged event aimed at inspiring or evoking awe/wonder

The Sacred Science – group claims, authority and wisdom of which establish "new truth" never before achieved & available exclusively only to group members
"Under this message"

Loading The Language – unique group vocabulary meant to directively evoke and condition thought and practice by conveying specific meanings "battle onwards Isreal"

Leaders over Doctrine – resolving of tension between group truth claims and personal experience at the group member’s expense, regardless of the cost

Dispensing Of Existence – belief that group authority is so absolute that it can infallibly determine the right of people, relationships and even cultural institutions to exist or not exist, and thus given any actual recognition...
Of sweet Remnant, please see the Love of our entreaty...
Come out of this mindset before
it is too late....
Remember the passages in II Corinthians
"For if I make you sorry, who is he then that maketh me glad, but the same which is made sorry by me?

And I wrote this same unto you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice; having confidence in you all, that my joy is the joy of you all.

For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.

But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.

Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.

So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.

To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;

Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

We must be wise to this formidable adversary who loves to watch Gods people hate, bite and devour each other*

What we say must be in the spirit of truth, helpfulness and love NOT
character assasination or slander....
That would just be feeding into satans plans towards Gods chosen....

Much love and hope in Christ!

 
At 12:54 AM, July 01, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

gwen shamblin has more wisdom then anyone else i have ever met in my life. her diet has changed so many lives...taking any of her teaching in her weigh down book, only shows the truth behind her work, in some way deep down you know its all true what she teachers, and its a shame that you just dont want to believe it b.c you dont want to follow it and give God everything. no one can compare to this women's teachings, b/c it is strictly TRUTH! and these principles might be "common sense" but if that were the case, we can call fat people studpid?? or say they have no common sense?? if you follow her guidlines to losing weight,(ALL of them) you will lose weight.
wake up and relaize that you are only mocking God by critisizing Gwen's principles that God gave her to teach.
one day all these people who mock Ms. Gwen Shamblin will regret and wish they had followed every word she recieved from God.

 
At 5:33 AM, July 01, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymus Poster:

YOu are decieved, we are to fOLLOW Gods words not the laws of Gwen Shamblin my dear*
Yes, she has taken godly principles and turned them into a religion.
I am sure those who follow God and not Gwen will be fine on Judgement day.
YOu sound so ignorant just because you have lost weight, you cleave to all the unjust biblical principle taught...
The great Prostiture is NOT the church READ REV 17, God makes it very clear...
I understand what you bELIEVE because I used to say the SAME things, but god through HIS spirit and HIS word showed me the GRAVE error of RF doctrine...

It is harder to overcome the tempation to judge others especially if you have been hurt by people walking in the flesh...

Which sadly we all do from time to time....

Even those in RF*

A portion of teachings at RF are very questionable and according to the HOLY scriptures they are false*
It cant be gwen or God....
It is GOD, only GOD, For HE alone IS TRUTH*
I have been blessed over the years with wonderful examples, godly men and women who really pursued the HEART of God full throttle.
I have met the half heart-eds, the faint, the ignorant, the hypocrites, the liars but those I clung to KNEW, believed and practiced THE WORD OF GOD.
Some people have issues , they have lots of pain, they have long standing bruises that GOD is healing.
I am a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ, many of my beliefs and understandings are just like yours.
But I could NOT bow down to the MAN made rules of Remnant Fellowship.

See, you guys all say THEY ( old churches)PREACH BUT THEY DIDNT DO*

YOu probably mean that they got angry and handled things wrongly according to Gods word.
We all BATTLE the FLESH, and WE must UNDERSTAND that there is an OLD MAN and a NEW MAN, which ever we allow to RULE WILL rule...
YOu have changed throughout the years as well, just because your "family" or a church failed you or didnt meet your expectation, does NOT mean they are frauds, counterfeits etcs..
Perhaps they have grown alot since that time too*
We must forgive....
My mom was mentally ill, and did evil to her children, she believed in Jesus Christ but never stayed faithful, so the DEMONS who possessed her came back OVER & oVER...

Now many years later, at the end of her life she spends a great deal of time crying, repenting and mourning all the pain she caused.
Will God forgive her?
I believe HE will according to the scriptures in First John & other places that those who confess & forsake their sins will find mercy, and I have forgiven her, embraced her and am commited to helping her along this narrow road, because I have fallen short in many an area and my heart REFUSES to condemn her,not anyone one else doing their best to follow the LORD, we should HELP others towards GOD, HE the only one who will decide on THAT GREAT DAY of Judgement.

See in Remnant, you never hear people just sharing Jesus Christ for Jesus Christs sake with the unsaved....NEVER*

You never have an Acts 8 going on because there is an agenda to GET them in a class & get them in THEIR church...

When you are out and about
have you ever just shared Jesus Christ and the gospel of HIS kingdom and what HE has done for you?

Have you ever shared the gospel Jesus Christ at all???


Have you shared the message of salvation, forgivness of sins with ANYONE without the strings of WD or RF???

This is the true test*

This is what I heard at REMNANT and THIS it is wrong...

Let me tell you about what WEIGHDOWN did for me, RF did for me, Gwen Shamblin did for me...

Let me tell you Gwens gospel doesnt not save you, Gwen has NO power to give YOU salvation...

YOu preach those entities but NOT Jesus Christ and him crucified for sin as Paul and ALL our other forefathers in the faith who had NO agenda to build THEIR OWN churches..

WE are to build CHRISTS church allowing the SPIRIT to direct them into all TRUTH*
Just like Phillip and the eunuch from Ethiopia in Acts...
Why dont you consider reading about that and the way GOD lays out salvation to be preached and WHAT he wants spread throughout the lands???
THIS is another gospel that PAUL warns us EMPHATICLY AGAINST IN GALATIANS..
How does an FBI money expert DISCERN a fake dollar bill???

IT IS NOT because he studies all the FAKE currency BUT because HE is an EXPERT, and completely and thoroughly familiar with the GENUINE*

RF preaches THEMSELVES using Jesus but relying on their own religious works in order to be accepted by GOD.

Paul never said to do that nor did any of these BIBLICAL expamples...

You say those religious people in your life before RF didnt do the will of GOD
consistently but neither have you, and neither have I, and neither has Gwen, Tedd, Greg, David,Andy, Michael etc.. etc....
We have ALL fallen short
and we are ALL striving against sin SO that we can be of use to our Master..

That doesnt make them counterfeits, it makes them immature, weak, babes and sucklings and needy of biblical correction...

But I will also add this my sweet friend...

The will of GOD is DIFFERENT from the MAN MADE RULES of RF.

I have CDS FULL OF these rules which have NO biblical foot to stand on!

The word of GOD says in Romans 10:9 how to be SAVED, correct?
Read it today...Really, REALLY READ ROMANS*
The new testament LAYS out what we are to preach, right???

What is the great commision of Jesus Christ, do YOU KNOW???

Think about the bOOK of Acts

When the elders went down to consider THESE very questions of Faith in Acts 15, what was the WILL OF GOD...PLEASE read this...

Acts 15
The Council at Jerusalem
Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue.

Therefore, being sent on their way by the church, they were passing through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and were bringing great joy to all the brethren.

When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them.

But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses."

The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter.

After there had been much DEBATE, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

"And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
(THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES REMEMBER)

and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

"Now therefore WHY do YOU put God to the TEST by placing upon the neck of the disciples a YOKE which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

"But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."

All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.
Now what was the END of this debate???
Verse 24
The men of GOD wrote this letter to those who were CONFUSED by the PHARISEES of their day...
"Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,

It seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

Men who have risked their lives for THE GOSPEL and the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

"Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth.

"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:

that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

So when they were sent away, they went down to Antioch; and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter.

When they had read it, they rejoiced because of its encouragement.
*********************
WOW, so considering all the LAWS of moses they could have been commanded to keep, that was the end!

Gods word does NOT command us to:

EAT only when hungry STOP when full*

It does NOT say
YOU may NOT go to weddings or funerals....

You must keep the feasts of the old covenant, such as unleavened bread, Purim etc...

You must GO TO LEADERSHIP with every perplexing problem.

I HAVE SEEN PARENTS MAKE THEIR KIDS OBSERVE THESE LAWS of the former covenant!

It does not say THAT The GREAT prostitute is the CHURCH, what a FALSEHOOD!!!!
Why dont you read these passages???
It does not say that the GIFTS of the spirit ARE
WEIGHT LOSS, good marriages, submission to authority, nor well behaved kids...

What are the true GIFTS of the spirit TERRY???

Do you hear speaking in tongues at REMNANT???

What about all NINE of the EVIDENCES Paul lays out in Corinthians 12???

Are they there???? NO!

And they should be IF this is the TRUE CHURCH!!!

Gwen has taken GOOD things, godly things and turned them into HER OWN RELIGION and has CEASED to PREACH and TEACH Jesus Christ The Righteous and IS PREACHING HER OWN CONTRIVED RELIGION and that is WRONG!!!!!!

Do you hear me FRIENDS?????

What RF has done is an AFFRONT to THE MOST HIGH GOD because in its least common denominator it REFUTES HIS GOSPEL, HIS truth for HER OWN, the religion of Gwen Shamblin..

However well meaning she may be, HIS hand is against her....
You know how they all laugh at how many TESTS she neeeds
to go through, whether at airports , life, etc???

It is the hand of GOD!!!

Do you think Gwen has a better gospel than JESUS OR PAUL???


God forbid!!!!!!

Listen to me
ONE GREATER THAN MOSES HAS COME!

As the voice which bellowed out of the CLOUDs, when Elijah and Moses came down on the HOLY MOUNT of transfiguration....
With Moses and Elijah RIGHT THERE............

GOD said to them all
"THIS IS MY BELOVED SON HEAR YE HIM!!!!"
not Moses , not Elijah but HEAR MY SON*

Remnant fellowship is a GREAT religious CLUB, elite and special like none I have ever seen...

But it is not the gospel of salvation JESUS CHRIST said to teach, no matter HOW you slice it...

Please give this letter to leadership, they can use it....

All Gwens ideas, rules and regulations MEAN nothing without GODS word to back it up....

Every time she breaks Gods word, she will suffer defeat, as in The Smiths, The Spiritwatch, The judgement etc...
It IS THE HAND of the most HIGH..

She has been wrong often...

Is she well meaning YES!

Is she devoted??? YES!!!

But just as I told HER, PAUL was devoted too, when he hailed men and women into prison who believed in the NEW COVENANT and Jesus Christ, neverthless
to show HIS AWESOME GRACE, God selected Paul to be HIS Ambassador...
Praise to GOD ALONE*

I wish you well, do NOT blaspheme the holy spirit, do not call GODS people uNCLEAN or evil just because they do not keep the LAWs of Gwen Shamblin.

If you know sinful christains, reprove them, love and help them....

I love you all very much, and I hope this blog is helping someone KNOW the gospel....

Or at least be the SALT which begins to make you thirsty for the waters of LIFE*

Grace and peace be with all who love our Lord Jesus and HIS gospel*

Lisa Marie G

 
At 3:22 PM, July 01, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh lisa, you could not have things any more twisted then you have them. I*** simply state that Gwen shares the TRUTH of GOD. not the truth of GWEN, G-O-D, GOD. there is no part of me or anyone else in the RF that follow GWEN, we only follow God and look to ms shamblin as a Godly example who happens to be a wonderful teacher of the word.
as far the counterfeit church goes, I was never wronged by a church in my life, and who cares if i was, its not about me anyways..its is about obeying God and making him the center of my life. i have been a part of many different christian churches, some in which believe you can stay in sin and still make it to heaven, now you find where in the bible it says we can go on sinning and still make it to heaven, b/c in the version i read it says the opposite we CAN NOT go on sinning and think we are still going to heaven, when a church teaches me that its ok to sin and that "everyone does" i know it is NOT from God the words that are coming out of the preachers mouth, cuz its not even biblical!
and as far as the RF ministering to unbelievers and non christians, sweetheart... that is ALL we do. what the heck do you think her books are published for????
just because we dont travel to india to "do missions" does not mean we do not seek out the lost and bring them to God... and for your information, there is not one time when i witness that i mention gwen shamblin... you are very ignorant to think that we are preaching the gospal of gwen when we witness, b/c to your suprise, IT IS ABOUT GOD for us, even tho you may think otherwise.
yeah, and weigh down and losing weight really is not the reason i joined the RF church... oh and by the way it is not religion. i simply have a changed life b/c of God, and it was the truth that Gwen spoke that finally touched my heart enough to give God my all. you have absolutly no idea what i have gone through in my life....screw losing weight, that is one perk of her Godly based way of eating. so i lost 10 pounds, that is nothing compared to the rest of the things i have over come.
you ask anyone in the church and the least of thier life changing factors is the weight... its about the heart. get it straight before you put us down.
the scripture you sent has absolutly NOTHING to do with your argument.....what are you trying to argue anyways?!?!? you make no sense atall.
as far doing the will of God, you are right when you say that we have all fallen short, but not one of us claims to be perfect..and those leaders are as close as they come to being like Jesus as it gets, i have a long way to go b/c those leadrers would not even be sitting here going back and forth with you the way i am, i simply get irritated when ignorant people decide they need to put this teaching down.. for what??? is there any harm being done in this church????? absolutly not. i can testify that nothing but good fruit stems from each and every minisrty we have.
and tongues?!???! is that what you are worried about?? is that what you think gets you into heaven? that is extrememly sad. i actually feel sorry for you hun.
its ok though you go on believing what you want to, but you know that the only reason you argue it so much is because you are so afraid that it is all true and that means you can not keep sinning. it boils down to you not wanting to give up all the sin in your life. i've been there, and you know what still am, there are many time when i want to believe other wise so that i dont have to think of myself as someone hell bound, but the truth of the matter is, if i keep on sinning i will go to hell.... and all you other people who think its ok to keep sinning, the bible says all that is left is a fearful expectation of raging fire...if you dont think that means hell then hey make it what you want, either way its not heaven and the paradise that awaits those who obey God and live a pure life.

 
At 6:50 PM, July 01, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear one,

I am not caught up in sin, nor do I believe one can sin without grave consequense...

So your surmising that the reason I am contending with RF is because I want to hold onto sin, couldnt be farther from the truth...

I LOVE GODS TRUTH, and Ms Gwens with all due respect is VEERING from the bible badly...

RF teaches very blatant errors...

If she is SO very biblically sound why did she pursue a lawsuit against another christian when Gods words says SPECIFICALLY not to???

Where did it get her???

Her teaching are blasphemy of the holy spirit, the oNLY sin unforgivable...

I fear for you all, in love...

YOur WDA class speaks Against GODS people, you dont understand the scriptures because your eyes, ears and heart is closed to the Spirit of The Living God and is only tuned into the spirit of Ms Gwen...

And as far as tongues saving us???

Where did you get that, IT IS written that tHESE signs shall follow them which believe...

It is just basic bible scripture...

I am earnestly contending with REMNANT as Paul did the Pharisees of his day who supposed it neccessary to keep the law in order to be saved....

You apparently are biblically ignorant in many areas...

If I am understanding your response accuratley..

I once said what you say, and I left RF NOT to hold on to sin, NAY to fulfill Christs ministry in my life.

RF does NOT preach Jesus Christ, crucified, resurrected and the sin sacrifice for mankind, they teach
a different gospel as Our beloved Paul warned us about...

Your leaders were not able to answer these matters,AND rather than to meekly consider the tRUTH of The gospel, they would rather cast out those who dont embrace their take on the scriptures...
But all my experiences and counter beliefs can be read at Tyras web site blog...
http://telepicturesblog.warnerbros.com/tyrashow/2007/05/weightloss_through_jesus.html

I dont have enough time to go into it all now...

But those who left REMNANT did not leave to live a life of sin, on the contrary to pursue the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ*

May God open your eyes in dramatic ways,

Love , Peace and more love ,

Lisa



And why are you here lurking about anyway?

 
At 10:26 PM, July 01, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

("RF does NOT preach Jesus Christ, crucified, resurrected and the sin sacrifice for mankind, they teach
a different gospel as Our beloved Paul warned us about...") -----first of all that statement is a load of crap.. you must have not attended the church very long, b/c RF in every way preaches about Jesus Christ and of course the crucifiction and the resurrection! are you kidding me, that is what we are based on, the fact that we would not even be saved if it were not for jesus. wow i hate to say this but you just sound pretty stupid!!
you either didnt pay attention and try to understand what RF teaches when you attended or too ignorant to care. there are NO doctrines that we follow, except the doctrines the bible teaches. there is nothing that Gwen teaches that is not straight from the bible. i dont really care to go to that rediculous web site, and read more lies of what you have to say.
tongues darling is a GIFT of the spirit, not a sign that you are saved. im biblically ignorant?? that is funny cuz i think that you are a little lost as to what the scripture means.
and you are bringing up the fact that gwen had a lawsuit going?? are you kidding me???? first of all there are soooo many lies going around about this women it is unbelievable, you dont even know half of what is really going on, and what went on. get it straight before you bring something up to JUDGE her with.
now lawsuits im guessing are one of your rules that you supposedly took from the bible? tell me scripture that backs that up. we are not to get revenge on people, but there is no where that says that we are not supposed to have a lawsuit. it does however talk about justice...this is not something that i am even taking from anything i've heard at RF, but only my own research and bible reading.... are you saying that when my a doctor killed my mother in the hospital i should have not filed a malpractice suit??? should that doctor still be in practice? i dont think you would want him practing on someone in your family. so there you go, justice. there is nothing wrong with making sure that justice is served.
and by the way, im not "lurking" around... not that it is any of your buisness but my friend found this when she was looking up gwen shamblin's book, and showed me, i read and of course got irritated. you say you have no time to go through it all.. its ashame you didnt stay in RF... i think you def. would have had way better things to do then bash Gwen Shamblin on various web sites...
i will start praying for you, you def. need the vail to be lifted from your eyes and your heart. its not to late to ever go back, no one has ever been kicked out of the church, and we welcome anyone despite the bull you may think.

 
At 6:01 AM, July 02, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good morning,

How long have you been in RF???

And you DENY that these things are true or have happened?

my , my, my....

This is NOT about bashing GWEN, it is about defending the gospel of Jesus Christ UNRESERVEDLY...

I have defended Miss Gwen VEHEMENTLY on web sites which did NOT offer the correct information...

My position as it has always been is to SEEK GODS TRUTH above all....

It is the JOY of my life and the Light of my life...

The gospel is very important to ME, because it is THE POWER of God to salvation to ALL who believe...

My heart aches and yearns for restoration and reconciliation of GODS people....
It is the nonesense she teaches about the counterfeits, the weddings, not being able to listen to other of GODS ministers, the denial of the fULL gospel, the missing gifts of the spirit, the likening of GOD to an absent, sweet, mindless CEO,the call for others to leave their church because all other members have 666 on their heads IF there is any sin, all these UNBIBLICAL practices plus the VERY MANY experiences of FORMER members who did stand up and say NO, we need to consider Gods word before proceeding, we need to TEST and STUDY and REALLY be biblicaly certain before we open our mouths...
And no matter how you slice it, RF sued Rafael over reputation, they were defending themselves and as the scripture says HE who defends himself forfeits the DEFENSE of GOD...
So it was still wrong and they suffered defeat...
Then remember the Smith trial, weeks before the trial EVERYONE touting vICTORY, reading all those Psalms , crying out for MERCY, fasting, CLAIMING victory ON THE message boards, hiring an EXPERT witness to defend the Smiths who treated thei son worse than a dog, locking him up in a closet, bolting him, no food, no toys, no fellowship, all to MAKE HIM OBEY..
The counsel was WRONG, shortsighted , that boy should have ben LOVED, given help, affection, but as it was in iDOL free 2003, ONE BETTER obey or be severaly punished...
I remember CLEARLY, RF takes a gemtler stance now BT back then ALL SELF in children was DRIVEN out by the rod or shall I say Glue Sticks...
The leaders you say are the closest to Jesus you have ever seen, use weight loss to promote themselves in the world, rather than the TRUE people of GOD who just courageously speak, it is funny that Ms Gwen never goes on TV and says " LOOK all my followers have lost weight because being obese is sinful, and I am a prphet of the most high GOD and HE has had enough, I am giving you the solemn warning..NO...
They guise there true agenda to get people into a class and slowly indoctrinate them with her TAKE on bible scripture....
My dear, the leadership will see these letters because tHEY do check these blogs , TEDD recently printed out my original and sent it to me certified mail...
Too bad you didnt put your name on your posts, then they can see the FRUIT , the spiritual fruit and lack of biblical understanding that their followers have....

How I wish to get a call from leadership and say, lets all sit down and get to the hEART of the gospel, how I wish they would allow, our elders, and wonderful GODLY, upright research experts in the Words of Life come and teach them what they are lacking...

How I wish they would allow our elders to come into your assemble and really address the people to teach them the correct gospel, how awesome...
There are VERY many of us, who are ABRAHAMIC new covenant believers, who do NOT believe in ONCE SAVED always saved, three in one Gods but have the truth of the scriptures and a life dedcated to JESUS CHRIST to back it up...
If you took the time to KNOW me and see my life you would understand my passio for this subject, it is all I have pursued for 15 years...Gods Most Holy words magnified and taught to the people...
Your leaders know me, they know what we teach but because they desire NOT to tell the people that they have been wrong in certain things they wont have it...
OH to see us all ONE day bring our Father JOY by embracing all HIS truth, living as ONE before his beneficent throne, LOVING and not judging our weaker brothers and sisters BUT reaching out in the name of JESUS CHRIST REGARDLESS of where they go to church...
My friend, I KNOW the truth, the gospel RF teaches is not the gospel of Jesus Christ, the new covenant, the doctrine Paul laid out for the people, try reading the bible indepthly rather than books man has written...

Time for my prayer walk, be well, may IT PLEASE GOD to hear all our prayers for one another and may we
experience the JOY of HIS reconciliation one day*
In the meantime PREACH the word of GOD, Jesus Christ is THE END of the law for all who believe*

Romans 9*

Much love and joy,
Lisa Marie

 
At 6:36 AM, July 02, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hERE is the BIBLICAL MANDATE AGAIST WHAT THE LEADERS DID....

Have you NOT read Corinithians???
Perhaps instead of just lETTING the bible fall open as your method of study, perhaps and indepth reading will do you good...


1 Corinthians 6
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are you unable to judge the smallest matters?

Dont you know that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

If YOU have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between brethren?

But brother goes to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers!!

Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because YOU go to law one with another.
Why dont you just take the worng? Why dont you simply suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

NO, you do wrong, and defraud, and you do it to brethren.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you: but YOU have been washed, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
**********************************

here is another precious truth
1st Corinthians 8*

Food commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we better; neither, if we do not eat, are we the worse.

But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

For if any man see YOU which has knowledge sit to eat in the idol's temple, will not the conscience of him which is weak be compelled to eat those things which are offered to idols;

And because of your "knowledge" shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

But when you sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you SIN against Christ.

Wherefore, if food in any way offends my brother, I will eat nothing while the world standeth, lest I offend my dear brother.
*********************************

HMM, did Paul tell them to GET out of the idols temple???

interesting passage...

Here is a quote from WDA...

The church which has sin on its pews IS the great prostitute...

But alas, let us see what GOD says...

See my dear, IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILTY to diligently SEARCH the scriptures to determine IF something taught is true, a TRUE spokeperson FOr GOD, does that...
A good disciple will HOLD up its leaders arms by PRESERVING THE TRUTH and integrity of the scriptures and a good follower will TELL the leaders the truth IF HE knows it, because tRUTH will uphold that leader...

We are NOT intended to be YES MEN, to our leaders supporting falsehood taught EVEN mistakenly, every word should be carefully considered and meeted out with the utmost care to our beloved brethren...

Okay, back to REVELATION 17*

verse 15 (But please read in its proper context when you have opportunity)
Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute.
They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled.
The woman you saw is the great CITY that rules over the kings of the earth."

Now, all through the book of Revelation GOD reproves and corrects HIS people, IF GOD wanted us to know that this PROSTITUTE
was the church, HE would have RIGHT HERE*

See, RF doctrine does not stand up to biblical scrutiny, this passage is very clear...And is happening today*

My dear, take every word and sentence and be responsible to TEST, study and hold your leaders accountable for them, THEN they will be Gods proven*

What JOY we have when we can REALLY understand and LIVE the WORDS of God*

My love to you meekly,
Lisa Marie

 
At 1:38 AM, July 04, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

lisa i have one word for you... PSYCHO! i simply stated my opinion on this nonsense website and look what i get, i should have known better. i will ALWAYS stand up for the truth, but this is just insane that i am even taking the time to read HALF of what you are babling. do you really believe that your Jesus is looking down on you right now and smiling b/c you can put down someone else's beliefs??? MY CHURCH(RF) WOULD NEVER SINGLE OUT ANY OTHER PASTOR OF CHURCH AND MAKE A WEBSITE BASHING THEM, B.C THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING, LIKE IT OR NOT!
everything you are stating are all rumors, and i happen to know these people personally, very well infact, AS WELL AS THIER CHILDREN!!!! you are just plain ignorant!
beleive what you want and twist what you want, cuz like i said before you will regret it one day.
maybe you should pray for wisdom instead of rattle off scripture to me, i have a bible i know the scripture... you are wasting your energy darling!!!!!

 
At 5:45 AM, July 04, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good morning,

Wow, everyone LOOK and consider deeply the "fruit" of RF followers...

Anyone with eyes to see, ears to hear or hearts that understand BEHOLD the ignorance*

Dearest RF Leaders, look at this writer, see what you have done, they are blinded...

This respose is pitiful...

This is not my blog....

And yES, I believe with all my heart that THE LORD has chosen me at this present day to confront the
modern day Pharisees of RF...

The advanced class they have made tells you what they have said and taught about ALL other churches, they just arent brave enough to SINGLE one out to reprove them biblically...

This blog is a forum for those with experiences of RF, everone is entitled to express their concerns and observances...

You are full of darkness, you cant even see how foolish you sound...

You have no biblical answer, no sound response so you only attack
and accuse the messenger, just like satan....

May GOD mercifully open your eyes, PLEASE bring this to the attention of LEADERSHIP, you really NEED counsel and correction, this is not how someone full of "Gods" spirit
writes or relates to those who oppose them....

Joyfully serving THE LIVING CHRIST,
Lisa

 
At 11:25 AM, July 04, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh lisa.... did you ever think to ask how old i am ? huh? you would be mighty suprised.
maybe even a little embarrassed.

but anyways, i pray that the
leaders do read this, and do correct me on anything i have said to you that i should not have, i have a lot of knowledge as far as the bible , and i know exactly what the TRUTH is,i am blessed to have such knowledge as such a young age! but i would gladly be corrected cuz im sure i have been a little brutal in my responses to you, but i enjoy being corrected by Godly pure leaders. it just helps me to be more like Jesus.
Ms.Gwen is such a great example of Jesus by the way =)
She is certainly who I chose to emulate on this earth. i hope that i can be more like her every day!
She is a prophet you know!

.... standing up for what you believe and for GOd's truth is one thing, but for you to think that its ok to bash God's people just b/c they have a different belief then you is a whole other thing, have you ever heard the saying if you play with fire you are going to get burned?? well that my dear is exactly what is going to happen to all of you people out there mocking GOd's TRUE church.

All i can say that is that i feel so blessed, now more then ever to be in this message of truth! thank you, really. you have opened my eyes to the evil that is out there when you are not obeying God.
i feel sorry for God tho, his heart prob. aches for people like you. searching and searching.... life is great living for God, and the fact that i have such amazing leaders to look up to! wow!!! who could ask for more?!!?
Im sorry you are chosing to live such a miserable life, you can still change, RF would gladly accept you back if you were ready to fully serve and obey God!

there is hope for you lisa. i know there is!

 
At 3:18 PM, July 04, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

When Hurricane Katrina tore into New Orleans as well as the other communities of the Gulf Coast one year ago today, an interesting question to consider would be where Gwen Shamblin, the “prophet” of Remnant Fellowship, actually was.

Possibly, she stood before a television somewhere, whether in her office or in her mansion, hearing of the devastation. But it’s more likely that she was like many of us in America who lived outside the region going about our lives with little thought about what seemed like just another hurricane. It’s equally likely that she had her own business to deal with, telling a “Remnant saint” they weighed too much, or licking potato chips at J. Alexander’s in Franklin. She could have been huddled in a board room with her leadership cadre, planning their next social activity to keep Remnant society well indoctrinated yet too preoccupied to really notice this manipulative process.

It is also very possible that Ms. Gwen was, as she likes to claim, awake in the middle of that awful night and hearing God’s voice speaking to her. We are aware that Gwen’s authority in Remnant Fellowship is viewed as both divinely ordained and beyond question when wielding the weighty office of God’s prophet for the last days. And since listening to God late at night is what prophets supposedly do, Gwen would be unafraid to go on record letting the Remnant Nation know that this is how she hears from Him so she in turn can speak “the truth.”

So when hurricane Katrina’s storm surge flooded New Orleans, we have to believe that Gwen’s message to the Remnant Nation three weeks later was equally "inspired" of God. Three weeks of absolutely stunning media coverage didn't hurt Gwen's creative juices flow either – this is how an ex-member of Remnant recalled it

Gwen went on and on the wednesday (September 21) before Hurricane Rita came through.She continually spoke about the sin in New Orleans and how this next hurricane was going to completely destroy them now. She was mad at people in the church and said no one appreciated the fact that her and leadership had to continually counsel people about losing weight or whatever they were struggling with.

She said many times that God was going to pour out his wrath on Remnant if they didnt straighten up and become perfect in his sight. Gwen spoke about the destruction that God was bringing upon the earth especially the disobedient. She prophecied worse destruction from hurricane Rita than Katrina because God didnt want the sinful city of New Orleans back on its feet again.

Anyway after Rita came through and not much damage was done she didnt preach the next 3 services. Gwen was absent and no one was told where she was or anything.It was really strange,all hush hush and everything. No one was informed and leadership didnt tell where she was. She didnt speak about the hurricane again as far as I know.

In my opinion she felt some type of conviction for being so hateful at the last service and probably felt a little uneasy about not being right. I believe she was convicted somehow because of how hateful she had been speaking about the people who were still having weight problems and other issues in Remnant .

Where indeed did Gwen go when hurricane Rita made landfall at the Texas/Louisiana border as a Category 3 hurricane .. and not in New Orleans? Her condo in Destin? Shopping in New York?

When sinful New Orleans failed to wash away completely as she said it would, she conveniently was not to be found for a week or so. Her absence reminds me of the incident of 1 Kings 22:25 in which the false prophet Zedekiah was told by the godly prophet Micaiah what he would do when his lying oracle of the victory of Israel and Judah over their enemies at Ramothgilead failed: "Behold .. thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself."

Remnant Nation, you owe it to yourself to ask those questions ..

If Gwen spoke the truth through prophecy, why did it not come to pass?

If Gwen is a true prophet, why does New Orleans still stand?

And where does Gwen herself stand NOW on the 1 year anniversary - could you comfortably go up to her after the next webcast and ask her why New Orleans still exists?

No? Why not?

agape

 
At 10:19 PM, July 04, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

you are a funny one....
but God will be the judge =)

GWEN SHAMBLIN IS SO COMPASIONATE I JUST LOVE HER =)
WHEN I THINK OF MS. GWEN I THINK OF WISDOM, LOVE, GENEROSITY,SHE IS JUST SIMPLY AMAZING!!! =)
GOD LOOKS DOWN ON HER AND HER MINISTRY AND SMILES =)
PRAISE GOD FOR SUCH AN AMAZING LEADER AND PROPHET. I AM SO BLESSED =)

-thanks and God bless,
RF member, devoted to the Holy Father!

 
At 5:43 AM, July 05, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good morning Friend,

Yes indeed I figured you were young, it is apparent from your writings...

When I think of Ms Gwen , I think the same things for I respect her life very much as I said before
I have DEFENDED her before many in those things which she is worthy of commendation...

As I wrote before this is NOT about Ms Gwen but about the false doctrines held, that must be repented of and changed...

This is not personal, my love and all hope is in THE GOSPEL of Truth.

Jesus Christ examines and walks among the churches and will confront errors in doctrine through HIS people, that is all...

I trust as you whole heartdely seek GOD throughout your life, and hunger & thirst for righteousness you shall be filled...

The things I have written are not mean nor bashing, I commend every good thing you do IN the name of Jesus Christ, just OPEN your eyes to the GWEN MADE rules that cannot be found in the bible and her interpretations which upon close scrutiny are wrong, rid yourself of these and you shall do well*

Love & Joy,
Lisa Marie

I am NOT the writer of the above article about Gwen, I was not there when she prophesied against New Orleans but it is worthy of consideration...

Is this true Remnant Nation???

 
At 5:26 PM, July 05, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

all i can do it laugh at the comment made about Gwen and the disasters, this must be an even younger child then me writing that bull!
its funny that someone even thinks up this stuff!
hahahhaha its quite humorous!


Peter warned:
8Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.

RF member, devoted to God!!!!

 
At 12:32 PM, July 11, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting quote from Peter....but your blind faith in Gwen omits any open mindedness of the possibility that the verse could be talking about people like her.

 
At 4:46 PM, July 11, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

my faith is not in gwen darling... it is in God alone =)
but gwen IS such an amazing leader!
~RF member, devoted to God

 
At 6:41 AM, July 13, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dearest Posters;

This gal is a kid, she knows very little about the depths of scripture*

All she can see is devotion to her "leader" typical for the alluring nature of this type of church....

We could send her scriptures that she could read but she has been blinded to ONLY see Gwens truth...

Sweet girl, God is jealous over THE devotion to GWEN, HE and she are NOT one in the same...
She has promoted her gospel OVER His, His salvation, HIS plans, HIS gospel are laid out CLEARLY and are without dispute but your sweet church in order to CREATE a church of the SELF righteous have hewn out a form of behavior modeification that NEGATES the GOOD news of Gods Kingdom for those HE HAS CHOSEN by GRACE and FAITH rather than by religious works OUTSIDE of his commands...
Are we saying works are needed ??? NO NO NO*
But true works are emanate from a heart of love and thanks RATHER than the misguided effort to GET GOD to love and accept us...

I ma sure RF is really thinking about their doctrine and my prayer is that you all see that GOD intends HIS family to LOVE & SERVE one another...
Not be PUFFED up thinking ONE Is above another, God loves YOU just as much as GWEN, and she is NOT The example Paul said to follow because she promotes a DIFFERENT gospel and according to Paul, IS ANYONE comes preaching a different gospel it is shameful and will be accursed and will be brought under judgement BY GOD himself...
As IS RF, to the world about them, every true disciple SEES that you all folllow Gwen and the leadership IN SPTITE of the fact
that they have gone OUTSIDE of Gods word in several critical areas...
My only words left for you all, is take HEED all of you...

take heed for we are in the days where many a false prophet and teacher, and mANY misguided disciples have taken upon themselves to be teachers of the law, KNOWING not that GOD has mediated a NEW covenant with THE people, one we enter by the bLOOD of JESUS CHRIST....
The ATONEMENT for sin....
It is not possible for the law to save YOU*
Only a true faith and reliance and lifestyle based upon the tRUTH of The gospel of Jesus Christ THE Messiah....
Take heed beloved people HIS GOSPEL IS THE ONLY GOSPEL WE SHOULD DEFEND, PREACH and LIVE!
RF teaches that the CHURCH , the church OUTSIDE of RF is the great prostitute of REV 17, BUT That is a LIE....
Let everyone read what GOD says is the great prostitute, EITHER GOD is correct or Gwen....
Sorry, I believe GOD!
Either God is right or GWEN over food rules adherance, AGAIN I choose GODS word...

Either GOD is corrrect or Gwen regarding the SUING of a ministry to FIGHT for reputation, again Ill choose GOD....
Again, either GODS blessed gospel thru Paul is correct or Ms Gwens,
I will choose GODS!
And I recommend highly for every member to SCRUTINIZE EVERYTHING you are being taught and bring it to tHE WORD OF GOD to see if it stands up to tHE TRUTH of HIS word...
Sadly, most sadly, it does not....
Therefore, it is another gospel and we are WARNED EMPHATICALY NOT TO receive it by our God...
Nevertheless, my prayer remains...
Oh God, open their eyes to YOUR truth...And lead us as ONE, please forgive ALL of mistakes, all our misguided efforts and help us all follow YOU, through YOUR SON< YOUR word and YOUR vision of HOPE through the gospel...

With GREAT LOVE and HOPE for each of you,

Lisa Marie

 
At 6:42 AM, July 13, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dearest Posters;

This gal is a kid, she knows very little about the depths of scripture*

All she can see is devotion to her "leader" typical for the alluring nature of this type of church....

We could send her scriptures that she could read but she has been blinded to ONLY see Gwens truth...

Sweet girl, God is jealous over THE devotion to GWEN, HE and she are NOT one in the same...
She has promoted her gospel OVER His, His salvation, HIS plans, HIS gospel are laid out CLEARLY and are without dispute but your sweet church in order to CREATE a church of the SELF righteous have hewn out a form of behavior modeification that NEGATES the GOOD news of Gods Kingdom for those HE HAS CHOSEN by GRACE and FAITH rather than by religious works OUTSIDE of his commands...
Are we saying works are NOT needed ??? NO NO NO*
But true works are emanate from a heart of love and thanks RATHER than the misguided effort to GET GOD to love and accept us...

I ma sure RF is really thinking about their doctrine and my prayer is that you all see that GOD intends HIS family to LOVE & SERVE one another...
Not be PUFFED up thinking ONE Is above another, God loves YOU just as much as GWEN, and she is NOT The example Paul said to follow because she promotes a DIFFERENT gospel and according to Paul, IS ANYONE comes preaching a different gospel it is shameful and will be accursed and will be brought under judgement BY GOD himself...
As IS RF, to the world about them, every true disciple SEES that you all folllow Gwen and the leadership IN SPTITE of the fact
that they have gone OUTSIDE of Gods word in several critical areas...
My only words left for you all, is take HEED all of you...

take heed for we are in the days where many a false prophet and teacher, and mANY misguided disciples have taken upon themselves to be teachers of the law, KNOWING not that GOD has mediated a NEW covenant with THE people, one we enter by the bLOOD of JESUS CHRIST....
The ATONEMENT for sin....
It is not possible for the law to save YOU*
Only a true faith and reliance and lifestyle based upon the tRUTH of The gospel of Jesus Christ THE Messiah....
Take heed beloved people HIS GOSPEL IS THE ONLY GOSPEL WE SHOULD DEFEND, PREACH and LIVE!
RF teaches that the CHURCH , the church OUTSIDE of RF is the great prostitute of REV 17, BUT That is a LIE....
Let everyone read what GOD says is the great prostitute, EITHER GOD is correct or Gwen....
Sorry, I believe GOD!
Either God is right or GWEN over food rules adherance, AGAIN I choose GODS word...

Either GOD is corrrect or Gwen regarding the SUING of a ministry to FIGHT for reputation, again Ill choose GOD....
Again, either GODS blessed gospel thru Paul is correct or Ms Gwens,
I will choose GODS!
And I recommend highly for every member to SCRUTINIZE EVERYTHING you are being taught and bring it to tHE WORD OF GOD to see if it stands up to tHE TRUTH of HIS word...
Sadly, most sadly, it does not....
Therefore, it is another gospel and we are WARNED EMPHATICALY NOT TO receive it by our God...
Nevertheless, my prayer remains...
Oh God, open their eyes to YOUR truth...And lead us as ONE, please forgive ALL of mistakes, all our misguided efforts and help us all follow YOU, through YOUR SON< YOUR word and YOUR vision of HOPE through the gospel...

With GREAT LOVE and HOPE for each of you,

 
At 6:53 AM, July 13, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dearest Posters;

This gal is a kid, she knows very little about the depths of scripture*

All she can see is devotion to her "leader" typical for the alluring nature of this type of church....

We could send her scriptures that she could read but she has been blinded to ONLY see Gwens truth...

Sweet girl, God is jealous over THE devotion to GWEN, HE and she are NOT one in the same...
She has promoted her gospel OVER His, over His salvation, over HIS plans, and HIS gospel are laid out CLEARLY and are without dispute but your sweet church in order to CREATE a church of the SELF righteous have hewn out a form of behavior modification that NEGATES the GOOD news of Gods Kingdom for those HE HAS CHOSEN by GRACE and FAITH rather than by religious works OUTSIDE of his commands...
Are we saying works are *NOT* needed ??? NO NO NO*
But true works emanate from a heart of love and thanks RATHER than the misguided effort to GET GOD to love and accept us...

I am sure RF is really thinking about their doctrine and my prayer is that you all see that GOD intends HIS family to LOVE & SERVE one another and LIVE HIS PLAN...
Not be PUFFED up thinking ONE leader, a person is better or Is above another, God loves YOU just as much as GWEN, and she is NOT The example Paul said to follow because she promotes a DIFFERENT gospel (GALATIANS)and according to Paul, ANYONE who comes preaching a different gospel it is shame and will be "accursed" and will be brought under judgement BY GOD himself...
As IS RF, to the world about them, every true disciple SEES that you all folllow Gwen and the leadership IN SPTITE of the fact
that they have gone OUTSIDE of Gods word in several critical areas...
My only words left for you all, is take HEED all of you...
There is an evil heart of unbelief which departs from the lIVING GOD and is turned onto fables...

Take heed for we are in the days where many a false prophet and teacher, and mANY misguided disciples have taken upon themselves to be teachers of the law, KNOWING not that GOD has mediated a NEW covenant with THE people, one we enter by the bLOOD of JESUS CHRIST....
The ATONEMENT for sin....
It is not possible for the law to save YOU*
Only a true faith and reliance and lifestyle based upon the TRUTH of The gospel of Jesus Christ THE Messiah will be rewarded....
Take heed beloved people HIS GOSPEL IS THE ONLY GOSPEL WE SHOULD DEFEND, PREACH and LIVE!
RF teaches that the CHURCH , the church OUTSIDE of RF, where ANY sin on the pews exist, is the great prostitute of REV 17, BUT That is a LIE....READ IT****
Let everyone read what GOD says is the great prostitute, EITHER GOD is correct or Gwen....
Sorry, I believe GOD!
Either God is right or GWEN over food rules adherance, AGAIN I choose GODS word...

Either GOD is corrrect or Gwen regarding the SUING of a ministry to FIGHT for reputation, again Ill choose GOD....
Again, either GODS blessed gospel thru Paul is correct or Ms Gwens,
I will choose GODS!
Either GOD is correct about the FRUIT in our life or Gwen...
Either GOD is correct regarding the SPIRIT or Ms Gwen, again I CHOOSE GOD*** GOD**** GOD***
And I recommend highly for every member to SCRUTINIZE EVERYTHING you are being taught and bring it to tHE WORD OF GOD to see if it stands up to tHE TRUTH of HIS word...
Sadly, most sadly, it does not....
Therefore, it is another gospel and we are WARNED EMPHATICALY NOT TO receive it by our God...
Nevertheless, my prayer remains...
Oh God, open their eyes to YOUR truth...And lead us as ONE, please forgive ALL of mistakes, all our misguided efforts and help us all follow YOU, through YOUR SON, YOUR word and YOUR vision of HOPE through the gospel...

With GREAT LOVE and HOPE for each of you,


Lisa

I am so sorry nOT to have edited before sending for my first attempt has so many spelling errors it was shameful..
Sorry....
To repost the corrections but they were IMPORTANT To OVERALL understanding....

 
At 11:34 AM, July 13, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

thank you lisa for your concern... i guess you can say i am a kid, but a kid that knows more about the bible then all of you. you would be suprised. i will not however argue the bible. i will defend what i believe but as you all know very well, argueing the bible gets you no where. God doesnt like it =(
poor God, he makes it so clear what he wants his followers to do and believe, but no one wants to fully obey!
i will repeat again... I DO NOT HAVE DEVOTION TO GWEN. i simply respect what she teaches and am very greatful for the kind of leader she is. I AM DEVOTED TO GOD, AND GOD ALONE. i follow God, not church, i believe in God, not church or a pastor or leader, i worship God, not a leader. GOD IS ALL. Jesus Christ is my savior, no one else. yes i believe Gwen is a wonderful person and a Godly leader whom i would not be where i am today if it were not for her, but she is no way who i worship or devote myself to.
so for being a "kid" i think i have my head on my shoulders pretty good when it comes to understanding God and God's love. i know for sure that out of all the things in my life He might be jealous over, listening to Gwen preach is sure as heck not one of them!
~RF member devoted to GOD!

ps. lets try and not put children down, God doesnt look down on us because we are young, and let us not forget what the bible says about being child-like!

 
At 11:00 PM, July 13, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is so interesting that you don't notice your own (and RF's?) contradictions.

You said:
I DO NOT HAVE DEVOTION TO GWEN. i simply respect what she teaches and am very greatful for the kind of leader she is. I AM DEVOTED TO GOD, AND GOD ALONE. i follow God, not church, i believe in God, not church or a pastor or leader, i worship God, not a leader. GOD IS ALL. Jesus Christ is my savior, no one else.

But followed it right away with:
i would not be where i am today if it were not for her

Should it not more correctly be that you would not be where you are today without GOD?

Also, if you can truly say that you don't buy many many books, DVDs, CDs, etc. etc. from (or about) Gwen, and don't eagerly put attendance at her speaking before other things regularly --- then I guess "I DO NOT HAVE DEVOTION TO GWEN." and "I AM DEVOTED TO GOD, AND GOD ALONE." is true.

An interesting thought to think about with an open mind:
"The shepherd always tries to persuade the sheep that their interests and his own are the same."
- Stendhal, 19th century French writer

On the other side, glad to see a passion for the Lord, not just mere men.

 
At 7:05 PM, July 14, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But followed it right away with:
i would not be where i am today if it were not for her

^^^^^that is in fact true, i would not have the relationship i have with God today if it were not for her teachings the guidance i have gotten from her.
BUT all the glory goes right to God of course for everything in my life, and tht is also how Gwen views herself, everything she does the glory goes to God.
i read the bible and attend church with remnant fellowship...i have read her books, but how is that any different from reading a book by any other pastor or writer???
i read harry potter books, does that mean i am devoted to the author of those books???
life is good, God is good and i love the church i attend, people's lives change for the best.. why would anyone want to spoil someone else's happiness in Christ?!?!? it makes no sense.

 
At 7:46 PM, July 14, 2007, Anonymous George F. said...

did Jesus come so that we can continue to sin without guilt, or did he come to destroy our sin? Did Jesus come to set the captives free from guilt, or did he come to set us free from the bondage of sin? Did Jesus come so that we can continue to sin without guilt, or did he come to lead us to repentance and remission of sin? If knowing the truth will set you free, from what are we supposed to be set free - guilt or sin?

If you think Jesus came so that we can continue to sin without guilt, that makes Jesus the promoter of sin: doesn't removal of guilt makes sin easier for all, allowing us to sin more; so Jesus came so we can sin more, so Jesus came to promote sin? Doesn't this makes Jesus evil? Could the devil make sin any easier than the guilt-free ease of sin this false doctrine attributes to Jesus? This is a major deception. Jesus said, I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin

 
At 7:50 PM, July 14, 2007, Anonymous George F said...

Grace is the unmerited favor of God, therefore a gift. A gift is free, grace is free. Grace has been given to all men by the Spirit of God being poured out on all men and women, since Pentecost, 2000 years ago. By grace, we are allowed to access the power of God to become righteous, whatever our sins of the past and our current problems. This righteousness from God comes [but not instantly] through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Rom 3:22-24. Eventually, but only after work of repentance energized by faith, we can all become righteous and become justified freely by grace; for we are not deserving of the help to change we get in the process of repentance - to the contrary, our unworthiness is only highlighted by grace's revealing of our sinful nature to us.

What Jesus made possible is: however deeply you have been immersed in sin, by faith in the name of Jesus, you have access through his imputed righteousness to the changing power of God to become pure, providing you are motivated to seeking his teaching and changing grace. So everyone, through their faith in name of Jesus, can approach the throne; and through patient and persistent obedience to his spoken-to-you teachings and commands, (repentance), be changed by grace, to eventually be purified and become righteous. Just as Abraham had to be physically circumcised, we must have our hearts circumcised to be pleasing to God. This web page shows how.

But grace does not make us instantly righteous, for we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. Gal. 5:5
Paul said : you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, OR to obedience, which leads to righteousness. Rom 6:16
Jesus said, as a first priority in our life, we must seek (aim at, strive after) the Kingdom and His righteousness. Mat 6:33
For the time being no discipline brings joy, but seems grievous and painful;
but afterwards it yields a peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:11
So we do not become instantly righteous when we say we have faith in Jesus.
We have to seek (strive after), be disciplined, obey God, and wait for the hope of righteousness.

The Lord has said to me: "Where there is obedience, there is righteousness; without it, you have World War II."
Even Adolph Hitler said Jesus was his Lord and Savior. - a sinner saved by grace???? No! No! No! Sin has to go!

 
At 8:02 PM, July 14, 2007, Anonymous George F said...

Grace has been twisted into lies from a teaching of repentance, leading to purity, to be a license for immorality and continuing in our sinful natures with no repentance required. This perversion began 2000 years ago in the early church; Jude wrote in 1:4:

For certain men, whose condemnation was written about long ago, have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

These men were false Christians, who had slipped unnnoticed among the true Christians, preaching freedom to sin through grace by faith in Jesus, but denying Christ to rule their words and actions as their sovereign and Lord, as he did with the real Christians of that time. The false gospel of grace was being sold as salvation 2000 years ago; unfortunately false instant salvation, has become universal, all sects being false sects.

Peter even warned us to be careful with Paul's letters, the false gospel's source, (which was Romans, see below), that they were easily misunderstood:

even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given unto him, hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which some things are hard understand, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness. 2 Peter 3:15-17. (If you only partially read Romans, you can easily misunderstand grace, thinking you need do nothing but have faith in Jesus; but if you look at the whole letter, as it was intended to be read, you know you have to kill your sinful nature to be pleasing to God. Look at Paul's Romans 8:8, Romans 8:13, Phil 2:12, Galatians 5:19-24, 2 Cor 7:1,1 Thes 4:7, 1 Cor 15:34, and I declared.. that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:20 if you have any doubt.)

and Peter later described such men again:

This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority, [such as the Apostles who tried to correct them]. 2 Peter 2:10
....11 left out
They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast [hearing the Word spoken in fellowship] with you. With eyes full of adultery, [lovers of money instead of God] they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness, [they preached for money, which Peter prohibited]. But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—a beast without speech—who spoke with a man's voice and restrained the prophet's madness.

 
At 8:11 PM, July 14, 2007, Anonymous George F said...

Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, who stand forth without repentance!

We can't have it both ways. False, instant grace/salvation does nothing and receives nothing.


No holiness - without holiness, no man will see the Lord, no salvation.
No scourging from God, no correction - you are illegitimate offspring and not true sons, no salvation.
No suffering and griefs in all kinds of trials, (tribulation) - no salvation, no Kingdom.
No overcoming the devil and sin, you are still a servant of sin living in the flesh - no salvation, no Kingdom.
No putting to death the misdeeds deeds of the body, not living forever as a Son of God - no salvation, no Kingdom.
No presenting your bodies as a living sacrifice to God - no salvation, no Kingdom.
No working out your salvation with fear and trembling, no salvation, no Kingdom.
No denying yourself, and picking up you cross daily, no being Christ's disciple - no salvation, no Kingdom.
No Taking his yoke and learning - no rest, no peace, no salvation, no Kingdom.
No perfect works, remember the commands you have heard and repent or - no salvation, no Kingdom.
No fruit of the Holy Spirit -not a true follower, no salvation, no Kingdom.
Grace works to salvation; grace is not salvation.

But all of these things are possible and even promised by God,
if we seek God's grace and help through repentance.

He is extraordinarily patient toward you, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should turn to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Many have been talkers of grace in this professing age, who have neither known of what they spoke, nor have informed the minds of men where grace was to be waited for, nor how grace might be known, nor how, nor what the operation of grace was; but have cried up, in their own imaginations: "We are justified by His free grace from all sin, past, present, and to come;" and, in this conceit, thousands have been led into the pit of darkness; imagining that they were justified by the free grace of Christ, while they were out of the fear of God, which it would have taught them; and while they heeded not this grace, but got into conceit, carelessness, and presumption; and so pretended justification while they were the servants of sin and bond-slaves to corruption - that is, all of you who have been preaching free grace in words.

Your covenant with death will be annulled,
and your agreement with hell will not stand.
Isa 28:18


Paul says: If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! Gal 2:17. So Christ did not come so we could sin guilt free, and we must seek to be justified in Christ.

When we believe in the "false gospel of grace with nothing required of us," all the scriptures about repentance, putting to death self, seeking, listening, obeying commands, getting a new heart and mind, purity, perfection, losing your life to save your life, being without sin, holiness, and living soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world, have to be ignored; or we have assume that we are pure and perfect, which is make-believe and hypocrisy in its worst form.

Paul says, "if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." We can't put to death the deeds of the body to purity by ourselves, no matter how hard we try. How do we learn to live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world? How do we cleanse ourselves and prepare to receive the glorious Christ and his Kingdom in our hearts.? We need help. We need God to help us, and there is nothing we can do to deserve this help. We need the unmerited favor of God, grace.

The method is to go to God yourself because everyone has his Spirit within them by grace. You have no need of any teacher but the anointing within you. You sit quietly and whenever you think, you think on the name of Jesus. This is how we learn from Him, get cleansed by Him, be led by Him, and come to know Him. He said: "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." He is the Light, he is the Word, and he has sent us the Spirit of Truth to teach us. If any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Rev. 3:20. Eventually you will hear Him. He has a soft voice; that is why it is written, "Be still and know that I am God." He will tell us things about Himself. He will encourage us. He is kindness. He will tell or show us things about ourselves; some will be things that are ugly. Christ the Light will show us all the hidden lusts, affections, and pride in our heart. But since he is our friend, we know that he is showing them to us for our own good. So we listen and watch. And we don't run, we stand before the Son of Man. And we repent of what he shows us. And sometimes he gives us commands. We are hearing the Word of God, the living Word. As we hear the Word of God, (Jesus speaking through the Spirit) our faith will increase by leaps and bounds; and keep increasing - if we obey his commands heard and show him we love him by being obedient. Christ in you, the hope of glory. Col 1:27

For everyone who comes to Me and listens to My words and does them, I will show you what he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug and went down deep and laid a foundation upon the rock; and when a flood arose, the torrent broke against that house and could not shake or move it, because it had been securely built or founded on a rock. Luke 6:47-48

 
At 8:18 PM, July 14, 2007, Anonymous George F said...

Sitting, thinking on the name of Jesus and waiting quietly on the Lord to speak to us, by his living Word, or reveal to us, by his Light, what is in our heart is not what our flesh wants to do. Instead of sitting quietly each day waiting on the Lord, our flesh wants to sleep, or worry, or plan our day, or think about something, or do something, - anything. Our mind will race through many subjects in desperation to save itself, (he who loses his life, finds it). The following is the missing cross of Christ:

seeking the Kingdom of God, as your life's first priority, is an act of repentance - a cross to your selfish will
turning away from evil, as you understand it, is an act of repentance - a cross to your selfish will
you don't want to sit quietly every day to listen and watch, but you repent and do - a cross to your selfish will
if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Rev. 3:20

you don't want to obey his commands that you hear, but if you repent- it is a cross to your selfish will
you don't want to forgive injustices done to you, but you repent and forgive - a cross to your angry self
you don't want to admit and regret what the Light shows your condition to be, but if you repent - it is a cross to your will
(this is the place where you get changed, where your peace increases; in the Light)
you don't want to give to others from your excess, but if you repent from your selfishness and give- it is a cross to your will
you don't want to defer (deny self) to others, rather than insist on your way, but if you repent and defer - it is a cross to your will
This is the Inward Cross of Self-Denial

If any will come after me, let him deny himself,
and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Luke 9:23

The cross (denying yourself) must be taken up daily to succeed; the cross that is the power of God to you, and the cross that is foolishness to others. The cross is the power of God. Belief in the true gospel is the power of God.

Read the Bible to keep you hopes high, (Psalms, John, Peter); but while reading the Bible, don't expect to hear.
Remember what Christ said about the Bible teachers and students in his day:
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
But you are not willing to come to me that you may have life. John 5:39-40

And don't forget to give, especially to the poor. Defer. Be kind.

Keep doing this on a daily basis, and you are "putting to death (making extinct, deadening) the deeds prompted by the body." You will change, maybe not as fast as you want to, but you will change. You will get less angry. You will have less desire for things. You will want to spend more time with Him and less time with worldly pursuits. He will give you personalized commands to be obeyed. Your desires for the world will melt as your love for Him increases. You are learning by grace how to live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world. You will see your false sect's activities as a waste of time because nobody else shares your hope and faith in the true gospel, the power of God; and the evidence of your faith in Christ, to lead you out of darkness to a sinless state, is for you to cease association with such people. If you stay, you will either lose your peace or lose your integrity. You will have to quietly leave your deficit sect to hear Christ's teachings. He will not build on top of false teachings. And you won't tell people your hope unless asked, because you haven't been instructed to by Him, and you're not ready yet to reach to the holy part of your listener which can hear. This is the cross. The cross is the power of God; repentance with remission of sin through grace. Belief in the true gospel, and the cross to realize the promise, releases the power of God to purify you and make you one with Him. See How to Benefit from the Changing Power of God for more details, including necessary suffering.

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—Rom 6:6

 
At 8:26 PM, July 14, 2007, Anonymous George F said...

Here the arguments for the false gospel of grace are exposed. The error is looking at only a few of the verses in Paul's lengthy letter to the Romans, ignoring the whole of the letter. Here is how they did it, starting with Romans 3:10

"There is no one righteous, not even one; Romans 3:10
there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. Romans 3:11
All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." Romans 3:12
(No one is righteous, no one decides to seek God themselves; God draws us to Himself. Therefore, no one can boast. )

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. Romans 3:20
(We cannot obtain righteousness by following the Law.)

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. Rom 3:21
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, Rom 3:22
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3:23
Correct, righteousness comes through faith in Jesus; no matter what you have done, righteousness is available through faith,
but this is not instant righteousness, as they incorrectly assume.

Paul clarifies: for we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. Gal. 5:5
and Paul further: you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness. Rom 6:16
And Jesus said, But seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness. Mat 6:33
So, by faith we are given the right to approach God, seeking his grace; but we are not instantly righteous.
Otherwise, we would not be told to seek, wait, obey, and hope for righteousness.
and Paul: Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. 1 Cor 15:34
These blind guides want to rest on the "imputed righteousness of Christ" to us, based on our faith; as it was with Abraham.
True, Abraham received imputed righteousness even before he was circumcised. True, our faith is imputed righteousness.
But he went on to be circumcised, just as we must receive the spiritual circumcision- our heart circumcised from sin.
And Abraham exercised his faith to leave his home for a new land - which we must also do, spirtiually.
We can't just sit around celebrating our imputed righteousness, which only gives us the right to approach God for help.
No, we must go to Him to receive his cleansing grace to become righteous- the fruit of which is peace;
the effect of righteousness will be quietness and confidence forever. Isaiah 32:17
Imputed peace, quietness and confidence forever is the make-believe instant righteousness of make-believe Christians.
So, this is the test: You are righteous and justified, if you have the peace that passes all understanding; quietness and confidence forever.


Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Rom 3:24
But this access to God does not make us instantly justified, for we seek to be justified in Christ. Gal. 2:17

And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. Rom 11:6
Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8-9.
It is faith and grace that saves. We are not saved by works, but by grace resulting from our faith in Jesus. Very true!
But slaves of depravity twist grace to be instantly complete and to justify DOING NOTHING, even repenting!
Per Paul: Grace teaches what to deny and how to live in a godly way that leads to purity. Titus 2:11-14
These whitewashed false prophets have the audacity to claim that the cross and repentance is 'works;'
Going beyond ridiculous, they tell you that if you do anything, you will loose your salvation by falling under the law.
This is a malicious distortion of the truth, dreamed up by lazy, evil men, devoid of any sense of godliness.
Works without faith in Christ count for nothing with God. But works energized by faith in Christ are essential.
Paul said, I declared..that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:20
The cross is only obedience, and those who oppose it are headed for destruction, for their god is their belly. Phil 3:19
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?James 19-20
Paul further said, "continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12
Again Paul said, grace results in a people zealous for good works. Titus 2:14
Jesus said, unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3. Repentance requires effort on your part.
And, As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Rev 3:19 (Zealous is -ardent desire, enthusiastic).
Jesus further said, Take my yoke upon you and learn from me. Mat 11:29
Jesus said, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Luke 9:23
Jesus said, I have not found thy works perfect before God. Rev 3:2-3. Jesus wants perfect works.
Jesus said, Stop toiling and doing and producing for the food that perishes and decomposes,
but strive and work and produce rather for the food which endures unto life eternal. John 6:27
James said: You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:24
So works are essential to realizing righteousness, purity, salvation, and the Kingdom - given to us by faith and grace.
Paul again: I declared.. that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:20

The blind guides say that since grace is free, there is NOTHING you need to do for salvation. Free is free.
I say, true; grace is free, but salvation is not. Salvation comes by the long process of the gifts of grace with faith that is evidenced by works, starting with repentance. We are saved by grace, as the sinful nature dies on the cross; and our death is not evidence of being worthy of God's gifts - no, just the shame of being so unworthy.

Remember, Jesus told his disciples to preach repentance with remission of sins. Luke 24:47
False grace/salvation, keeps the forgiveness and ignores repentance; the blind guides don't even know how to repent.
That is what this web site is dedicated to teaching: how to receive conviction requiring repentance, and how to receive the cleansing, changing grace that leads to purity and the Kingdom of Heaven, paradise while on earth.

Paul again: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Romans 6:15
So grace, is not a license to continue to sin. We are not condemned while we are waiting to be cleansed,
but per Paul again, we have to continue to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12

Per Paul again: But God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin,
but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Roman 6:17
(he is talking to people then free from sin, having obeyed the doctrine that made them free from sin)
Being then made free from sin, you became the servants of righteousness. Romans 6:18
by obedience to the doctrine referred to in 6:17, they were made free from sin and servants to righteousness
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Romans 6:22 You cannot serve God unless you are free from sin. Everlasting life comes after you have produced fruit unto holiness.

And finally Paul says it all to conclusion:
For if you live after the flesh, you shall die:
but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live. Romans 8:13-14
and
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit,
perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1
So there it is: perfecting holiness. I can't imagine a stronger requirement than to be perfectly holy.
This is not make-believe christianity, this is the real requirements of being a Christian.

Paul again, speaking to mature Christians who have been set free from sin and are enjoying holiness:
But now since you have been set free from sin and have become the slaves of God,
you have your present reward in holiness and its end is eternal life. Rom 6:22

Paul's patient teachings, explaining in detail how salvation works, have been twisted into the devilish doctrine of instant salvation.

So the false grace/salvation doctrines are based on "cherry picking" a few verses from the Bible about grace and twisting them to mean salvation, while ignoring the preponderance of other verses throughout the Bible that totally change their meaning considered alone; by promoting "instant salvation by faith and grace," they excuse evil to good, they make black white; and they ask you to pay them money for their error, even when they are specifically forbidden to take money. 1 Pet 5:2. And Acts 20:29-31 tells us: Even from among your own selves men will come to the front who, by saying perverse (distorted and corrupt) things, will endeavor to draw away the disciples after them.They were taught by Bible Colleges rather that Christ himself. See a few of George Fox's writings on these blind guides. Instant grace is the broad way that leads to destruction, vs. the narrow way that is contracted by pressure that leads to life, which few will find.

The world wants a Christ that excuses them to live their life as they choose; that is why the false, instant grace/salvation has swept the deficit sects - false teachers telling them what their itching ears want to hear: relax, just say you believe in Jesus, get washed by water, and by magic you are reborn, free to continue your 'new life' in sin - but assured of escaping Hell and going to heaven when you die. Relax, relax, grace, grace. Didn't your common sense tell you the false, instant salvation your preacher sold you was at least a little suspicious?

See How to Benefit from the Changing Power of God for more.

This web site's purpose is to show how to become
free from sin
by benefiting from the changing power of God through the cross,
which leads to union with God in his Kingdom.

 
At 5:55 AM, July 15, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you George...

All you have said is weighty & Powerful, I have NOT read all the posts here, so I am unsure who you are addressing...

I am very sure that there are many
IDEAS and so forth which have crept into the "Christain" church
which are corrupting and defiling...

But none the less, the gospel Paul preached is the one we stand by, & the one we preach and teach...

RF teaches MAN made rules, rules OUTSIDE of the beautiful perfect will of GOD...

That is my only contention with that group...

I LOVE the zeal, the purity, the passion they SHOW for His Name.

But not ANY of their corrupted materials...

But as for the fALSE grace you spoke of, YES, and AMEN*

I do NOT believe that INSTANT salvation ,nor ONCE saved always saved nonsense AT all...

Each day I bring my body, soul and spirit before THE GREAT GOD of heaven and earth, and HIS SON, our high Priest, our mediator, bEGGING for HIS light, truth and heart to search me, probe me, cleanse me of ANY impurity, for it behooves all of HIS children to submit to HIS inspection and Lordship daily....

So, although this website seems to be people discussing RF suing of Rafael Martinez, they may blindly teach a false grace, one which leads to NO change whatsoever...

These we must pray for daily, for there is indeed the fullfilment of GODS most Holy Word
Thessalonians 2
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

And with all the deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this reason God will send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

And he has called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

The WORD of Our God is very clear
and for those who love the truth REMAINING in sin is unthinkable...

We all strive, submit, put off, stop, plead and FLEE from the sin which destroys the bond of LOVE
through the new covenant GOD made through Jesus Christ, the second Adam...

Yes, we as HIS people must be strong in the truth, live it , teach it, share it and live it...

There is great darkness in the earth, and we TOGETHER should shine as lights in the world...

As I have always said GODS word must be the standard on which we live, not mans...

My love to you, your words have lifted my heart and blessed me tremendously...
Are you a RF member???

What are your thoughts regarding the falsehoods and man made rules they hold?

How do you reconcile the scriptures in those things??

I had not been able to do that while with them, but have found another wonderful upright assembly of those who LOVE the truth nearby...

Oh to share these glorious truths together...

Much love and much respect,

Lisa

 
At 10:17 AM, July 15, 2007, Anonymous George F said...

Hello Lisa, I believe: There is Hope for All. All will be reconciled to God, either in this life through the unpleasant purification process of crucifixion of the lusts and affections, (that the false sects know little about), or in the next life's more painful purification process, called Hell. All will be saved. All will be reconciled to one by Christ to God.

As Jesus said, "narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." So what happens to the vast majority of people, including people who call themselves 'christians,' who don't produce fruit, become purified, reach a sinless state, and enter the Kingdom of Heaven while on earth? Are they doomed to everlasting punishment in Hell? A God, who tortures the vast majority of humanity forever, is a sick twisting of the scriptures to make our Father of light, mercy, compassion, and love into a monster; any person of reason finds this twisted concept of God repulsive. This false concept of an unforgiving, eternally punishing God serves to turn masses of people away from Christ and God; it is the devil's doctrine and tool. Should we fear God? Oh, Yes! We should fear his displeasure; like a good parent, (but infinitely better than a human), he will discipline and punish us for the things we continue to do wrong - but to a purpose - to teach us, change us, and to reconcile us to himself in love. God is Love. Love corrects. Love disciplines. But Love restores. Love never fails. Do you honestly think God created us so he could punish and torture us forever? If you do, you have grossly underestimated his power, his forethought, his mercy, his kindness, his compassion, and most of all - his LOVE. The purpose of life is to find God, and his purpose will not be thwarted. He values every life. We are his creation, and he loves all of us. We all are one. Every person you see will eventually be your brother, reconciled to God, after being purified with removal of our lusts, affections, selfishness, addictions, and pride.

To live in heaven, you must be purified: either in this life with less pain and a greater reward or the next. Neither is a pleasant experience; to die to self is not pleasant. Purification on earth is much easier than purification in Hell; purification in Hell is a horrible, obsessive experience to be avoided if at all possible. All will be saved. Your life in heaven will be far more rewarding if you attain purification while on earth. But, even if you have to pass through Hell, your resulting life will be much better than life on earth. So there is HOPE FOR ALL! But first lets look at how the Bible shows Hope for All:

Luke 3:6
And all mankind will see God's salvation. New International
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. King James
And all mankind shall see (behold and understand and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God (the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God). Amplified

1 Timothy 2:5-6
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Cor 15:22

Romans 11:7-33
7 What then [shall we conclude]? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. Only the elect (those chosen few) obtained it, while the rest of them became callously indifferent (blinded, hardened, and made insensible to it).
25 Lest you be self-opinionated (wise in your own conceits), I do not want you to miss this hidden truth and mystery, brethren: a hardening (insensibility) has befallen a part of Israel until the full number of the ingathering of the Gentiles has come in,
26 And so all Israel will be saved. As it is written, The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will banish ungodliness from Jacob. (notice he is going to purify them all)
(Just in case you missed that - ALL of Israel will be saved - ALL).
27 And this will be My covenant (My agreement) with them when I shall take away their sins.( he will purify them all)
28 From the point of view of the Gospel (good news), they [the Jews, at present] are enemies [of God], which is for your advantage and benefit. But from the point of view of God's choice (of election, of divine selection), they are still the beloved (dear to Him) for the sake of their forefathers.
29 For God's gifts and His call are irrevocable.
30 Just as you were once disobedient and rebellious toward God but now have obtained mercy, through their disobedience,
31 So they also now are being disobedient, that they in turn may one day, through the mercy you are enjoying, also receive mercy.
32 For God has consigned (penned up) all men to disobedience, only that He may have mercy on them all.
( ALL men and women will receive God's mercy ALL - ALL, Jews, Gentiles - ALL!)
33Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unfathomable (inscrutable, unsearchable) are His judgments (His decisions)! And how untraceable (mysterious, undiscoverable) are His ways (His methods, His paths)!

Col 1:16-20
16 For it was in Him that all things were created, in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities; all things were created and exist through Him and in and for Him. (Christ is Him)
17And He Himself existed before all things, and in Him all things consist (cohere, are held together).
18He also is the Head of [His] body, the church; seeing He is the Beginning, the Firstborn from among the dead, so that He alone in everything and in every respect might occupy the chief place [stand first and be preeminent].
19For it has pleased [the Father] that all the divine fullness (the sum total of the divine perfection, powers, and attributes) should dwell in Him permanently.
20And God purposed that through by the service, the intervention of Him all things should be completely reconciled back to Himself, whether on earth or in heaven, as through Him, made peace by means of the blood of His cross.

It is written in the Prophets, They will all be taught by God. John 6:45

He will swallow up death. And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces; and the reproach of His people He will take away from off all the earth; for the Lord has spoken it. Isaiah 25:8


Declare what is to be, present it - let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past?
Was it not I, the LORD ? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.

By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.

with respect George F

 
At 10:34 AM, July 15, 2007, Anonymous George F said...

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God,
who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
(This should end any doubt that all are saved. The Savior of ALL men and women; and for those who believe, even greater is the result.)

Now, more on Hell as part of the saving of all men:
(A lot of pain with unexpected love.)

1 Cor 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
You will have nothing to show for the time you spent on earth. All will have been wasted and for nothing.

People who don't find holiness in this life "shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" 2 Th 1:9
Notice he does not say destruction of life or torture, just from the presence of the Lord and the glory of his power.
Even the translation of the word 'everlasting' is highly disputed by many Bible scholars,
pointing out that "eternal" and "everlasting" have been mistranslated from the Greek word "anionios,"
which means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. Source: Dr. Marvin Vincent,
Word Studies of the New Testament (Vol. IV, p. 59). However, it will, at least, seem like forever.

Matthew 10: 28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Those not purified loose their souls and go to Hell, but the spirit lives forever and eventually leaves Hell to a much better life than earth.

To live in spirit and soul is to live in a higher dimension of love and Life than to live in spirit only.

Everyone will deeply regret the loss of their soul, by not obtaining purification while living on earth.

What you may not know is that you are now living on the earth in a cursed existence, the curse of Adam's fall, cut off from union with God; everything is relative. So your life can be better than earth after hell, but nothing like it could have been; and you will see those who are enjoying the higher dimension; therefore, even after Hell, you will be continually aware that you live in a comparative state of punishment.

Yes, there is a Hell. It is very uncomfortable, to say the least. It is not like Dante's inferno. It is not physical fire and brimstone; these are physical symbols of the spiritual, for example: "Our God is a consuming fire." Heb 12:29. There is also a burning within you to do something; the burning of lust, as described in Romans 1:27, but in a burning intensity greater than you have ever known. It is raging obsession. It is hyper sin city - complete mutual rage, complete mutual lust, etc. The brimstone, sulphur, (when burned sulphur produces sulphur dioxide, used for purification and bleaching), symbolizes a spiritual purification agent. The Lord once told me "if one man's sin can curse the whole human race, then how much more just is it for one man's righteousness to pay for the sins of the whole world." Sounds logical doesn't it? HE IS LOGICAL. And the scriptural proof of his statement to me is:

Well then, as one man's trespass [one man's false step and falling away led] to condemnation for all men, so one Man's act of righteousness [leads] to acquittal and right standing with God and life for all men. Romans 5:18

In the presence of the Father, I was told by Him: "every man and woman is precious; every person will be brought back to Him in reconciliation; every word spoken, every action taken by everyone leads them to God." I could see and feel the infinite wisdom of God and how all ways led to God; and I could see and understand how this life was an illusion because it was nothing but a way to God for each and all; it was overwhelming; it was the greatest experience of my life to date. I also found the Father to be full of joy, happy, forgiving, and in control beyond what we can at best imagine. What we are learning in this life, all of us, will eventually lead each of us back to God - some obviously a longer, more difficult process than others. But don't make the mistake of thinking that since you're going to make it anyway, you might as well enjoy as much evil as possible. Your efforts to live according your understanding of what is required of you will be to your credit. Many stripes for some, fewer for others.

Curiously, this is confirmed by the visions of St. Julian of Norwich, who was assured by God: "Sin is behovely, but all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well." Julian's theology was optimistic, speaking of God's love in terms of joy and compassion as opposed to law and duty. For Julian, suffering was not a punishment that God inflicted, but was a means he used to draw us closer to himself. She also found God to be happy and full of joy, optimistic, confident, and in control.

(You may be asking yourself: why is this information just being disclosed? Answer: the eternal Hell Fire damnation talk has become so loud and damaging to thinking souls, in its inherent unfairness, that he that felt it necessary to remind us of his value, love, and mercy for all men and women, proved by the many scriptures quoted herein, which we have forgotten and cast aside. The true sheep are being scattered by the Hell Fire damnation talk.)

Now for that special case of children - how much purification is necessary for an infant? Any? No! How much purification is necessary for a five year old? Certainly, is it not logical that purification of children is much simpler than someone who has lived 50 years of mistakes, habits, lusts, and affections?

When talking about judgment, Jesus said in Matthew 7:22-23: "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity." Obviously these people, who thought they were Christians, called him Lord; and they had enough faith that he was the son of God to perform wonderful works in his name, but that was not enough. Where is their fruit resulting from purity? Can you imagine how betrayed these people will feel. They will likely be angry. They will likely feel resentment and mistrust of Jesus. Their purification will probably take longer than the 'sinners' because of their anger and resentment; and the 'sinners' will finish purification and enter heaven first, and the 'saved' will finish purification and enter heaven last. So the last will be first, and the first will be last. And if they are teachers or preachers, not perfected and authorized by Christ, and therefore having been teaching in error, their time in Hell will be even longer, for the blood of those they have misled will be on their heads. This scripture was already being fulfilled in Christ's time on the earth: the tax collectors and prostitutes were already entering the Kingdom ahead of the eminent Pharisees - those thought to be last were before those thought to be first. The person who has the least esteem of himself can hear the call to repentance the clearest. The last can hear the call to repeantance; the first are deaf in their self-righteousness, (or their imputed righteousness from Christ, which supposedly excuses them from repentance and the cross of Christ).

Do not confuse this with the "purgatory" that the Roman and Greek sects have defined. Everyone who is not purified enters Hell, regardless of religious profession. There is no prayer or contribution that can hasten their exit.

Neither should this teaching be ammunition for universalists, because to escape the purification of Hell and save your soul, you must find the straight and narrow way that few will find. A faith in Jesus Christ that produces fruit is the only way to salvation of the soul; there is no other way. If you loose your soul, you will live in spirit only - a lower dimension of heaven - and only after a long and painful purification experience in Hell. You will regret forever your failure to seize the opportunity of salvation while on the earth.

You must have fellowship with Christ in his sufferings; 1 Pet 4:12-13
if you will reign with him, you must suffer with him; 2 Tim 2:12
if you will live with him, you must die with him; 2 Tim 2:11
and this is of necessity to salvation; and not temporary, but continual: there must be a "dying daily."
and if you die with him, you must be buried with him, Rom 6:4
and being buried with him in the true baptism, you also rise with him. Col 2:12

Jesus said he would reject many, who thought they were Christians, but who stilled sinned. If he rejects people who name themselves Christians, though he loves people of all faiths, he will also reject those of other faiths or no faith too. A total change of heart is necessary.

You cannot depend on your righteousness and 'salvation' from reading scriptures about grace and faith. If and when you are righteous, Christ will tell you so! When you are assured of salvation, he will tell you "I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut." The receipt of salvation and the entering the Kingdom are simultaneous. Depend on nothing else, except his spoken words to you! Remember Jesus said, "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance;" because the righteous cannot hear his call to repentance, yesterday and today! The righteous think they need to do nothing; they even say repentance and the cross is "works" and to do any work related to salvation would disqualify their false salvation based on 'grace' - so they can't hear his call to repentance, especially if they are busy in a form of religious practices: bible study, attending services, tithing, singing, reading from a prayer book, eating wine and bread, water baptisms, speaking in 'tongues.' He told me: "It is hard for those wrapped up in a form to see repentance to the truth." It was hard yesterday; it is hard today. See Jesus Wants to Teach You Himself for seeking His righteousness.

We know that there is some form of life in Hell, otherwise pain would not be felt. If all are to be placed in right standing with God and life, after Hell is heaven. It is better than earth, but no where near the Life we can attain if we become purified and attain the Kingdom of Heaven while on earth, (perhaps the "third Heaven" of which Paul spoke in 2 Cor 1:2). The attainment here is relatively free from pressure, relatively free from compulsion, free from the intensity of the experience in Hell. Here we can choose thousands of times a day what we want to do. There, (in Hell), there is little choice - only an obsession to do the things you have harbored in repetitive intensity so much that they become repulsive; and finally you choose to risk sacrifice of your life remaining rather than continue -- thus shunning evil, hating evil, and being so sick of evil that you live happily ever after serving love - but in a diminished state than if you had chosen to shun, hate, and eschew evil while on earth. The diminished state and the higher state have been described to me as "living in different dimensions." In the old testament, only the high priest could enter the Holy of Holies in the temple; those who produce fruit in this life become kings and priests, in the presence of the Lord and in the glory of his power forever, serving Him.

Again, the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1 Tim 4:9-10

Purity on earth is not a pleasant experience for it involves suffering through tribulation and a fiery ordeal, (the Ministry of Condemnation, in which your schoolmaster is the Law of Sin and Death, after which comes the Ministry of Life), but Hell is far worse; it is to be avoided at all costs. It is truly Hell. It will feel like forever in the first 2 minutes. It will go on and on and take on as many different forms as you have addictions. Your addictions are not apparent to you now. Even if you like to read about or watch programs about violence or sex, you are addicted far more than you realize. Those addictions are destroyed, not by reading, but by doing. One could say, you get the desires of your heart, but in an avalanche of mass quantity/repetition. It is truly a burn-out experience. You must arrive at the state where all addictions are repulsive to you and you automatically shun them. So, whatever your pleasures, they will be hyper-driven until repulsive. In Alcoholics Anonymous, they refer to an alcoholic's bottoming-out experience; to wake up one day in the gutter and say to yourself, ENOUGH - I'VE HAD IT, resolving to reform with a higher help. Such will be the case in Hell; you will be driven to a bottoming-out experience in every lust and affection you have. There will be weeping; there will be gnashing of teeth; there will be suffering; but not forever and to a purpose - repentance until they are reconciled by Love to God.

The heaven of the Vikings, Valhalla, was where they rode out every day to do battle to the death, and then returned to a drunken feast. Perhaps that is exactly what they got, until they got sick to death of it. Become aware of you desires; face them; know you are a slave to you passions, pleasures, habits, pride, and lusts.

There is an old eastern religion adage: "The first step to getting smart is to know you are stupid."
Unless you know that you are a slave, you will never get free. So the first step to freedom is to look at your slavery.
From the voice of the Lord: "Those who refuse to look at their slavery say, church me."
It comes down to a choice of how you want to live:
1) as a selfish human in slavery to your anger, pride, lusts, passions and pleasures with no lasting satisfaction, or
2) would you rather be dedicated to purpose of actions and words that are pure, true, noble, clean, peaceful, joyful,
beneficial to others around you, and full of love for your creator - while in union with your creator in his Kingdom-
with him loving and treasuring you in return, to your eternal satisfaction?

The pressures of attaining purity on earth are so great that when some have been "convinced" and "condemned" (having entered the Ministry of Condemnation), they can become so tired and weary that they don't have the strength to go on; they then "fall asleep" in Christ, (they die, but while in Christ). But they are the first to be translated at the Lord's next coming as said in 1 Thes 4:13-18. The infinite mercy and kindness of the Lord takes them out of the world to protect them from evil and falling away, and to keep them safe until their resurrection from the grave into Heaven. (This to me is wonderfully special because it says that once someone enters into the Ministry of Condemnation, their salvation while on earth is assured; what Love and Care He has for us -- to be sure we make it, even if we weaken under pressure. I don't think I will ever know how great is our God - he is beyond our minds. But we know he is clean, pure, logical, sensible, gentle, kind, merciful, fair, just, faithful and true beyond measure). Before you conclude that the earth's pressures might be too much, don't forget that however great the pressures on earth, those in Hell are far, far worse; and of course the rewards for attaining purity on earth are beyond our imagination - as it is written: No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him. 1 Cor 2:9

The purpose of our life on earth is to arrive a the state where we hate evil so much that even when tested under pressure, we refuse to take it up again. At this point we have arrived at Job's state of "perfection":

Job 2:3 says, "And the Lord said unto Satan, 'Have you considered my servant Job,
that there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and upright man,
one that fears God, and eschews (shuns, abhors) evil? and still he holds fast his integrity,
although you moved Me against him, to destroy him without cause'."

And if we do become one of "the first fruits" we will be kings ( a servant like Christ) and priests forever in the close presence of God worshiping and serving Him, beholding His glory, and being like Him, being one with Him, loving Him, and being loved by Him.

Not everyone can be kings, or we would all be trying to out-serve each other. I haven't been told exactly what kings will be doing; in general, I know they will be forever growing in learning and love. My opinion is that the vast group of people who do not attain purity on this earth will be served by those who became kings and priests. If we are chosen, we can take no credit or pride; we are simply the beneficiaries of his unmerited favor - grace. Those chosen were not chosen, because one day, all on their own merit, they decided to seek God; no, God is the one who draws us to Him, and then he turns our salvation over to Christ to produce to completion. Many are called, few are chosen. Those chosen have responded to the call of God. Since there is no time with God, he knew ahead of time who would respond to his call by their choice.

It is Christ's job to reconcile all things (which includes all of mankind) back to the Father. The relative ease and comfort of attainment in this life, and the rewards available to those who attain purity and reconciliation in this life, make the supreme effort to attain purity and the Kingdom in this life only common sense. Prize your time, while you still have it available. Pray for the Father to motivate you more by drawing you to Him while on earth. Offer Him your life-long best efforts in exchange for his drawing you to Him. Doubting his existence, I once said such a prayer and he answered with an indelible experience; an experience he has told me "anyone can have if they humbly ask."

And to those of you who attain perfection; to those who reach purity in this life; by you doing so, (producing fruit), you show yourself to be true followers of Christ, and he then brings honor and glory to our Father. Is there anything else worth aspiring to do? For if there is some way we can repay our Father for our breath, our heart beat, our life, our savior who has paved the way for us, then that is the only thing to want - every other thing must take back seat to the passion of bringing glory to the Son and the Father. As for me, knowing that I can possibly do this for Christ and the Father, as insignificant as I am, I gladly dedicate my life to do so, and I am eternally grateful for the opportunity. For with success, we become united with God, and we operate according to God's purpose, will, and pleasure; and our pleasure is to have clean, pure, holy, perfect purpose in our words and actions - to be a instrument in his hands totally dedicated to life of love.

For if you live according to the flesh, you will surely die. But if through the power of the Spirit you are putting to death (making extinct, deadening) the deeds prompted by the body, you shall live forever. Rom 8:13

 
At 11:01 PM, July 15, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

george, you sound very wise..God's word truly is all that needs to be spoken.
thank you
RF member, devoted to God

 
At 11:03 PM, July 15, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

lisa lisa,why must you bash RF in every single post?!
its un called for.

RF member, devoted to God

 
At 11:26 AM, July 16, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you read Lisa's writings carefully, you would see that she also compliments RF members.
Taking her to task is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black --- don't RF members 'bash' others worldwide for their beliefs?
I hope "George F" knows the meaning of plagiarism (a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work), mind you it's ok if "he" has the writer's permission.
Why can't we all see that we are in the same walk towards God, just are taking different paths. It doesn't mean your path or mine are wrong, just different from each other.

 
At 1:33 PM, July 16, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous... arent you sweet sticking up for lisa =)
well dear, i can not speak for anyone else in my church, (RF) but i can speak for myself when i say that I do not bash other churches. so please dont assume i do. and as for my church goes, that is not what we are about, they simply warn us against the churches that teach false doctrine. which i believe that is what is going on in this website, am i right or wrong?!! according to you people, you are warning against Gwen's "false doctrine" so is it bashing when we do the same against what we believe to be false?
this is how i stand: everyone is entitled to thier own beliefs.

and as for george, im sure he tried ever so hard to track down the authors of the bible.....however, i dont think they mind him quoting scripture =)
have a wonderful day in the Lord!

-RF member devoted to God!

 
At 6:37 PM, July 16, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

She is almost comical isnt she????

She is clueless....

Thank you George and my anonymus friend....

Since when has standing up for GODS truth become bashing???

It is true that RF teaches a gospel different than what Paul preached that is my only contention the mishanding of the words of life....

And dear DEVOTED one:
Did you happen to REALLY read Georges posts???

"""Hello Lisa, I believe: There is Hope for All. **All will be reconciled to God,***
either in this life through the unpleasant purification process of crucifixion of the lusts and affections, (that the false sects know little about), or in the next life's more painful purification process, called Hell.
"All will be saved. All will be reconciled to one by Christ to God. "

I do not think the scriptures support that paragraph, but the word of God he shares is thrilling to thirsty soul longing for the words of The Lords mouth....

The SECOND death apparently is a topic Jesus discusses in Revelation
and it is evident in that wonderful treatise that NOT everyone shall be saved...

But Glory to GOD for HIS compassion, mercy and LOVE...


Our new covenant is truly the ROYAL LAW of liberty...


Loving GOD, LOVING others truly, Loving all those around us...
Truly LOVE is the fullfilling of law....

Have a great day everyone, this forum is always exciting, thought provoking and gives me lots to pray about....

Great love & respect in Christ,

Lisa

 
At 11:12 PM, July 16, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

One last response to anonymous, as it seems to be futile to be able to have a good discussion:
– bashing was your term, not mine. I only used it since you stated that Lisa was ‘bashing’ your religion whenever she disagrees with certain points, then I merely pointed out that in the same vein ‘bashing’ must also be what you do when disagreeing with other people’s beliefs (false doctrine, counterfeit churches, etc.). If her disagreement is bashing, then your disagreement is the same.
– Out of the huge volume of words and sentences “George” wrote, I was referring to the majority of it where it isn’t quotes from the Bible. It all sounds quite familiar?
– There are many, many sites devoted to either disagreeing with a topic or promoting a topic. I don’t think this one is unique in that respect. Having a good discussion, not ‘bashing’ is good as we can all learn so many things.

Even though it is interesting, I don’t agree with everything Lisa writes, and find some posts long to read, but have been learning different views here from ALL posters. How else do you know if you will like or dislike something unless you calmly find out more?
Let’s all say a prayer for tolerance, respect and patience.
So I am not confused with anonymous,

Sonya

 
At 6:05 PM, July 17, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

lisa, like i said, EVERYONE is entitled to thier own beliefs, even george. i enjoy the scripture he states.
im glad you find me comical! i love to give a good laugh!
and i love even more that you look down upon me so much! it really makes me feel great =)
praise God for the message i am under that teaches me not to thnk of self, or other wise i might just be a little sad from your remarks about me!
oh and Paul... are you obsessed with paul, why is it that you mention Paul in every singl post? there are other writers in the bible, and im a lil worried that you may be worshiping paul over GOd!
Remnant Fellowship teaches exactly what paul, AND the rest of scripture teaches.

sonya, i simply used "bashing" in refernce to the way lisa speaks about my church and the leaders. i feel it to be wrong the way she puts it all down. saying that she does not believe what we believe is one thing, but putting other people's beliefs down is another.
i do not bash other churches or beliefs.... again, i believe everyone is entitled to thier own beliefs. i happen to believe that 1. Jesus is God's son 2. Jesus died on the cross so that we can be saved and 3. we must live sinless lives in order to make it into heaven.
thats all....
RF member devoted to God

 
At 7:35 PM, July 17, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Darling rf follower,

You are embarrassing yourself...

With every post you only show more of your ignorance and immaturity...

No one is looking down on you at all, only pointing out to YOU what you cannot see, and how you appear to others who are endeavoring to rightly understand and delve into the sacred scriptures honestly and courageously, you see some of us really dont believe everything people say we research, probe, examine and diligently work the scriptures...

Paul is the man which received the most part of the revelation of the new testament, which is crucial to our lives NOW and are directly written to those alive AFTER the resurrection of Jesus Christ...

That is why it is critical to understand the gospel HE RECEIEVED
from GOD for us today....

Your vehemence is glaringly apparent and is against the truth itself not me, its humble servant.

God bless you as you learn and grow and may HE show mercy towards your hasty, and arrogant manner of converstaion...

IF you gave these notes to Ms Gwen , she would be shocked at your
absolute rudeness, embarrasing their church with your mindless retoric....

I dare you to give this to her...

You know you are wrong that is why you sheepishly hide behind your anonymus alias...

Shame on you, go to bed now it passed your bedtime...

Good night, sleep tight, dont let the bed bugs bite...

Lisa Marie


Again, all these things are VERY apparent to ALL of us, perhaps you need to spend some more time looking inward because if your writings are EMANATING from a sinless life, you are on the wrong road, your writings are far from sinless....

 
At 1:56 AM, July 18, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"God bless you as you learn and grow and may HE show mercy towards your hasty, and arrogant manner of converstaion..."

AMEN!

Arrogant manner and condescending wording are indeed very much putting down another's beliefs.
Being hasty in putting out the words before letting them settle for a bit can end up not imparting the message you want, then the message itself gets lost.
When a speaker speaks, it must be remembered that the impression left by the speaker also becomes the impression about others of their group, so care has to be taken that we don't unintentionally tarnish our sisters and brothers reputations.

If you are planning for a year, sow rice; if you are planning for a decade, plant trees; if you are planning for a lifetime, educate people.
- Chinese proverb

Sonya

 
At 6:37 PM, July 18, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

lisa, you are rediculous!
you call me immature???? look at you! you can not handle the things i say and can not even come up with something Christ like to say anymore... i think im getting to you. huh?

oo0o0o0o im so scared, you dared me to show this to ms. Gwen!! i have no reason to hide behind anything, i simply dont want crazy people like you knowing my name.
how old are you??? 12??!?! i thought i was the kid here!?!?
when i said God wants us to be child like i wasnt referring to the childish games and sarcastic remarks, but congrats, you sound very child like!
listen, you have brought this to far.... i have better things to do then argue the truth with you.
i really dont have time for this anymore, it just so happens you have provoked me so much that i wasted weeks on this stupid website instead of getting the truth out to people who want it.
have a nice life... good luck with your "truths". i pray you find the true God, and quit with all the silliness.

oh and i will get to bed at a decent hour, how sweet of you to be so concerned!

-RF member devoted to GOd!

 
At 7:41 PM, July 18, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sweet mislead rf girl,

I have handled each one of your comments with love and IF you carefully read my posts you would see that...

I think you are projecting a bad tONE & attiude into my writings...

I am trying to be light hearted and sweet to your immaturity and rudeness...

Ms Gwen, does NOT approve of this, that I can tell you that because she is a good woman who I have had some wonderful talks with, who would INDEED be VERY upset with your UN christlike behavior...

IF GWEN doesnt like it, how do you think GOD feels about your writings???

I think YOU do know.....

Lisa

Please dont be offened, your words havent ruffled me at all....

I am still writing in LOVE and HOPE for your tormented soul....

Be PURE, BE KIND and Keep cool in your respeonses, for many will oppose you throughout your life...

Good night, sleep tight*

Blessings upon blessings,
Lisa Marie

PS: I became a cop in 1990, I have served the public faithfully many years in integrity and honor,
you have nothing to fear, I am on the GOOD side in both the spiritual and natural realm....



I am not afraid to show WHO I am and what I stand for*

 
At 4:24 PM, August 11, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow this has been a VERY interesting " Google".
I too attended the "Weigh down workshop" at our Alliance Church in Edmonton Alberta about 7 years ago until they cancelled it along with almost every other Evangelical Church I know of that ran the program.
I burned both of my books and all the materials I had purchased...I knew something was not right when I was told to stop taking my thyroid medication. It took me a long time to reverse the damage of stopping that neccesary hormone.
P.S. I lost 90 pounds through weight watchers 6 years ago and feel amazing.
Cheers to you all...Shame on you Gwen, God will Judge you alone.

 
At 12:53 AM, August 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, this 'fellowship' seems very scary in the way that it harms people's lives, relationships and more.
Good for you that you are in a safer health mode now. Congratulations on the weight loss!
And, you are so right, God alone will judge Gwen. It would just be nice for the followers to see through to reality. We've lost family members to this so called church, since the rest of us are judged to be somehow tainted, yet it's supposed to be all about love and happiness.

 
At 9:04 PM, August 13, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Luke 6:26
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.


Matthew 23:33-34
You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.


John 8:43-44
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Matthew 7:15-20
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.


John 5:37-42
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
You search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
I receive not honour from men.
But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.


Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men:
for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.


Matthew 23:24
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.


Matthew 15:14
Let them alone: they are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Luke 20:46-47
Beware of the scribes, who desire to go around in long robes, love greetings in the marketplaces, the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts, who devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.


Luke 12:1-2
Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. [Hypocrisy is talking, not walking. Pretending to be a godly person, while practicing: greed, lying, pornography, drunkenness, slander, rage, lusts, theft, dishonesty, etc. He tells us that any hypocrisy will be exposed and shamed.]


Luke 11:52
Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge:
ye entered not in [the Kingdom] yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.


Matt. 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees,
YE SHALL IN NO CASE enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 23:25-28
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
You make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within are full of extortion and excess.
You are blind, first cleanse the inside of the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
You are like whitewashed tombs, outwardly beautiful, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
So you also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.


Matthew 23:16-19
Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing;
but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?


Luke 11:43
Woe to you, Pharisees! For you love the best seats in the synagogues and to be greeted [by flattering title] and bowed down to in the marketplaces.


Matthew 21:32
Jesus said to them, [Pharisees]
"I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.
For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him,
but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.


Matt. 21:43-45
Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them.


Matthew 23:2-5
whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.


Luke 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves,
We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


Matthew 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses,
and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.


Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte,
and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.


Luke 11:44
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not,
and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.


Matthew 23:16
Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing;
but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!


Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin,
and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith:
these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


Matthew 23:25
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter,
but within they are full of extortion and excess.


Matthew 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres,
which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.


Matthew 23:29-31
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets,
and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.


Luke 11:46
And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lay on men with burdens grievous to be borne,
and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.


Luke 11:42
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs,
and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


Luke 11:47
Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.


John 14:6
Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


Luke 6:25
Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.


Jude 1:11
Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion. These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm— shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted— twice dead.

 
At 10:03 PM, August 13, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the CALLED of Jesus Christ:

Christ is the END of the lAW to all who believe on HIM...

Redemption IS the PURPOSEFUl gift given to us BY Jesus Christ....

Redemption from Sin...

Redemption from enslavemnet of every kind...

Redeemed from the CURSE of the law....
Romans 3:20-27
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Righteousness Through Faith
Rom 3:21
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the REDEMPTION that came by Christ Jesus.
God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith.
Ephesians 1:3-10

Spiritual Blessings in Christ
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose US in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love HE predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ

Colossians 1:9-20

For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding. And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully 2giving thanks to the Father, WHO HAS QUALIFIED you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light. For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14in whom WE HAVE REDEMPTION, the forgiveness of sins.

Jesus Christ has redeemed ALL those GOD has graciously given him...

Let the REDEEMED of the Lord say so*

We should be the most mericful, loving, forgiving, most influential people on the face of this earth, after all that our Lord has redeemed us from....

Self righteousness and the need to be right, Rather than to see the HEART of God poured out to all humanity through the life of Jesus Christ...

And the GIFT GOD has given in order to RECONCILE ALL Things to HIMSELF....

God is a GOD of Hope, reconciliation, LOVE, forgivness, justice and compassion....

Isnt HE wonderful!!!

Lets us LOVE not in word only but in deed and truth!

Blessings of the Gospel be multiplied to all those who believe,

Lisa
Lisa

 
At 8:21 AM, September 14, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you struggling in any type of mental, physical, spiritual or emotional PRISON???

Wacth the outstanding music video.

Get tissues....

YOU are GREATLY loved*

Lisa Marie

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ee73e63418003b47d7d5

 
At 7:55 PM, October 24, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a teen and i would just like to say that because Mrs. Gwen showed us who God really was and who He really wanted us to be, we are a changed family and my friends at RF are holy, beautiful freinds and we are NOT in trouble or taking drugs. We are learning how to fear and LoVe God with all of our hearts and be bright lights for those who are hurting. I just know, because God showed His mercy to me and let me hear Him through Mrs. Gwen, I have a chance to make it to Heaven.
Much love to you all

 
At 8:28 PM, October 30, 2007, Anonymous wannabe said...

Last time I read the Bible the name "Gwen Shamblin" wasn't in it. There's only one way to heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.

I know alot of the RF members are stating they don't worship "Gwen"..but unfortunately your posts sound as if you do. Perhaps you should relook at things and truly make sure you only view her as a sister in Christ, and not as a "savior" of your soul.

And please don't pull verses from the Bible to back up your claims, when you pull a small portion out it becomes whatever you want it to mean, but when you leave it in with the verses (or chapters) before and after...well, it'll have an entirely other meaning. I choose to believe the Bible as a whole; and not in fragments to prove a point.

 
At 10:08 AM, October 31, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well said....
Having been part of Gwens church
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that The Holy Bible has been cut up, disected, privately interpretted , handled dishonestly,and dished out to her followers to eat....
They do not teach the gospel message of the New Covenant that Our Lord died to grant us....
In that, they have elevated the religion of Ms Gwen above that that our forefathers in the faith
spent their lives proclaiming....
Jesus Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe and has USHERED in a new covenant, based upon better promises and a better hope....
GOD would not call it better IF indeed it was not....
As followers and disciples of Jesus Christ we no longer are to follow the law given to Moses at Sinai....The Law was a school master till Christ....
Sadly, they compell their followers
to keep CERTAIN parts of the law such as Purim, Feast of Unleavend
Bread, Harvest, feast of weeks...
Etc...Day of atonement....
YET, the great apostle Paul WARNED us EMPHATICLY not to return to the keeping of the law (Galatians)
Also the counsel of ALL the Forefathers like Peter, Paul, Barnabus etc were outraged that certain jews were Compelling the gentiles to keep the law of Moses...If you all would read ACTS, then Romans,
then we can plainly see that we are NOT under the Law, nor are we told to observe it...
But rather to Walk in the Spirit, be filled with the Spirit of God, which will reflect what Paul lays out in Cornithians 1 &2, and be ruled by the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and walk in love, light and wisdom...
I cry for these zealous, misguided
sheep who are forever reading and negating all that was done IN the REDEMPTION of mankind through Jesus Christ , Our Lord....
To HIM ALONE be glory, honor and Exaltation Forever.....Amen*

Love & Joy in the sight of The Most High God,

Lisa Marie

 
At 2:12 PM, November 29, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My name is Jocelyn and I have been reading these postings and they are SCARY!!!

Lisa, I am so glad that a level headed person such as yourself is not afraid to speak the truth.

I joined Weigh Down Workshop in the early 90s and it was NOT the same thing it is today. I loved Gwen and believed the message of eating when hungry, and stopping at politely full. The basic principles are WONDERFUL. I worked on my relationship with the Lord and instead of feeding the addiction of food, I dove into the Word more and turned to Him to help me with the cravings that were purely emotional for feeding a hungry heart instead of a hungry stomach.

I had gotten off the beaten path for a while and needed to get back to the basics and I remembered the WDW as a wonderful plan. Now I remember the whole Gwen denies the trinity thing and thought it was just a big misunderstanding LOL .. iye iye iye! I gave her the benefit of the doubt without doing my homework and well, it is what it is. Regardless, I had seen in the past year Gwen appearing with that couple who lost 500 pounds together (I think??) on the TODAY show and being interviewed by Matt Lauer.

I thought, "Yes I would love to get on that program again and it worked for me before!" So I typed in the search engine, saw the website, and joined immediately to the tune of almost $200.00 HOLY COW!! But everything costs, right?

Week 1, I was so excited I watched the intro video and just "knew" that this was it! As the video said I found the truth! (well part of the truth) ..

I had gotten grief from my family on Gwen and reminded me that she was kicked out of the bible churches (her program WDW) and that she as a heretic. A red flag went up but I proceeded anyway.

Week 2 I remember watching the video and saying to myself "Yes this IS the narrow road!" And enjoying class so much. Although my workbook was a bit scary and what I noticed what that NEARLY EVERY SCRIPTURE VERSE WAS GIVEN OUT OF CONTEXT. To any bible scholar, that is obviously a no no. Rule #1 when interpreting the bible is to Let Scripture Interpret Scripture. More I could say on that but for time sake I won't. That was a red flag, I proceeded anyway.

Talking to some of the others in class online and with my class leader it became glaringly apparent that there was a whole other tone that is not seen this program is promoted. I spoke with my leader on the phone and she was making my head spin!! I told her my hesitation with this but that I would be open to the Spirit's leading (because I never want to be above reproach - that's just basic in accepting correction ..) so I continued. As the weeks went on I had such a warning in my heart it was making me ill.

I was doing very well on the program and dropping pounds left and right but the message the "genuine article" that was being shoved down our throats was straight (AND IS) from the pit of hell. I could not believe the things I was reading in my book and hearing on her videos.

Things such as "being sinless" and on the audio tapes that I was listening to constantly when Gwen takes the verse out of I Peter that says that whoever has suffered in his body is done with sin. She told us how exciting that was to know that truth! Out loud in my car I was like, "WHAT?!?" I looked up the verse and immediately did cross checking, reading EVERYTHING IN CONTEXT and remembered that this was the verse that means (basically) that when God the Father looks down on us (born again children of His who accepted Christ as our personal Lord and Savior) that He sees the perfect work of Jesus Christ on the cross - He sees HIS righteousness that is imputed to us! This verse does not mean that we as Christians can be sinless!!!

Also, the concept of being able to lose our salvation?? If we step out of line one inch that means that we are going to hell (including eating one bite over full)??? Hmmm .. well then I wonder why Jesus Christ died. Because if we can lose our salvation, that would mean (on a very basic level) that God's standards keep changing. Christ's FINISHED AND PERFECT WORK ON THE CROSS simply was not enough. When Jesus Christ died on the cross, THE BLOOD HE SHED COVERED AND THE SINS PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE. If this was not true, then all of us would be eternally lost right now because we exist after the cross took place.

Even in Romans Paul talk about there is NOTHING that can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus. Not death nor life, angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, neither height nor depth can EVER separate us from God's love. That also means nothing you can DO in the future. Obviously if we think (as Christians) that WE are responsible to KEEP our salvation, then we are saying to Jesus Christ that His work was not good enough and we'll handle the rest from here. There is a HUGE difference between a works based fraud and a grace based salvation faith.

I couldn't sit idely by and watch what was going on and the Holy Spirit within me was screaming at me to stop the program I finally did. I did some research online and HOLY COWWWWW did I learn a lot about the Remnant Fellowship Church, all of the people who have left it, how the whole RF came into being. WOW ... I still look back at how I did not heed to the warning in my heart, and how cultish everything was. It makes so much sense now.

I confronted in emails and on the phone the leader of the class AND my regional rep from my state (in love of course) and asked them certain questions to get an honest answer. When it was OBVIOUS that they were giving me scripted stuff (same phrases I had heard over and over in teh tapes and videos) it was truly like Hollywood playing out in the Stepford Wives. The regional rep (state rep) even told me, "Well Gwen is like our John the Baptist ands he has come to shake up the world with the truth" I asked her, "YOU honestly are comparing her to John the Baptist??" There was silence. I said, "I cannot now and never have gone along with the crazy teachings from Gwen. She constantly takes scripture out of context and if she is serious herself about leading people to the truth then she needs to repent of her foolishness." That was the last I spoke to the regional rep. I felt bad for her because she was just as sweet as anything but I knew she was led astray by Gwen.

I also had "dueling emails" I'll call it with the leader of the class in which she gave me scripture and I fired scripture right back at her. When I began to teach her about the whole "sinless" issue she had nothing to come back with. I reminded her that in I John, God's word says that "If we say we have no sin, we make God a liar and His truth is not in us..." I explained the verses and she had nothing to say. When I began teaching her on losing one's salvation she would give more verses out of scripture. I gave her passages in John where Jesus says, "I and the Father are one... No one plucks them out of my hand..." among MANY other scriptures to hold the REAL TRUTH up to no avail.

She was not convinced and it is the Holy Spirit's job to convict and so I saw she was beyond any reasoning .. I was reminded of throwing my pearls to pigs .. can't argue forever on this.

I prayed for both the leader of the class and the regional rep and most of all for Gwen, for heavy and strong conviction. Shame on Gwen, for preying on the obese people and their vulnerability, promising them the promised land and then telling them they have to forsake everything and follow her (as if she's the new Christ). Heck, according to the regional rep, she's the new John the Baptist!

Please please if anyone is reading this that just purchased the program or is halfway through and YOU have warning in your heart, listen to it. Do not get sucked in. I got out in time because I am the type of person to go full throttle and I would have joined the silly RF (which isn't a real "church" by the way - not by the Bible's standards) I would have moved to Tennessee and unknowingly become part of a cult had I not heard the Holy Spirit and been brough up in a SOLID BIBLE BELIEVING CHURCH who bases things more on what a person weighs.

 
At 6:33 AM, November 30, 2007, Anonymous Lisa Marie aka Biblical View said...

Thank you Joycelyn,

I know exactly what you endured, the confusion, the conviction of the Holy Spirit, the mental merry go round between truth and error...

I am standing with you in prayer for these beautiful lambs...

Who have misinterpretted many a scripture...And misled many to doubt Gods great love and true purpose for their lives...
The Gospel of JESUS Christ, that great man who suffered unceasingly to give HIS life as an offering for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD as it says in Hebrews...
Praise to GOD for HIM FORVER!!!
We are not to be Ambassadors for Weigh Down or Remnant Fellowship but to be true Ambassadors for Christ, the one who REDEEMED us from the "curse" of the law..
The very CURSES that RF loves to frighten people into obedience with*
Obedience is wonderful if produced from a heart of true love for GOD and man...
But works based, performance based christianity is a snare to the soul.
Be well my sister, May we be living to the Praise of His Glory daily*

We cant be afraid to confront false doctrine with the TRUTH of GODS word...

Great love to you and blessings in the name of Jesus Christ,

Lisa Marie

 
At 7:40 AM, November 30, 2007, Anonymous Lisa Marie said...

Oh yes, this just came to mind on this important topic...

I completely agree that the original Weigh Down was very blessed and pleasing to GOD, thus it was magnified and esteemed amongst the saints in all churches...

To go back and read those books, listen to all the tapes is a delightful experience and YES we should all practice that moderation in eating for I believe it is DELIVERANCE from God...
Thus God blessed it tremendously Ms Gwen profitting from its publication and mass production.

But that SLY ole' satan got in, deceiving Mw Gwen to turn this wonderful truth into a religion of her own...
When Ms Gwen originally penned this , she was full of compassion, love and biblical responsibilty.

Be accountable to Elders and esteemed teachers of the FAITH...

It appears that she has forsaken that accountability and surrounded herself with ONLY those who agree with her, the many "YES men and women"
who believe she is infallible and unerring, a present day prophet...

But our critics sometimes are the VERY ONES which help us see ourselves accurately and should be heeded to honestly
and even good godly debate welcomed,if we are to stand with the true great men and women of the BIBLE...

The doctrine they teach will not stand against the truth of the Gospel taught to the saints in the new testament...

Thus, she has pulled away from all critics and has been turned to fables and the keeping of the law..
As Paul warned Timothy so emphaticlly in 1 Timothy 1
***
Paul,an apostle of Christ Jesus, according to the commandment of God our Savior, and of Christ Jesus, who is our hope,
To Timothy, my true child in the faith: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men NOT to TEACH strange doctrines,
nor to pay attention to MYTHS and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere SPECULATION rather than furthering the administration of God which is by FAITH.

The goal of our instruction is LOVE from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

For SOME men, STRAYING from these things, have turned aside (VEERED) to fruitless discussion,

DESIRING to be TEACHERS of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make CONFIDENT assertions.

We know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,

realizing the fact that THE LAW is NOT made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief;
and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus.

It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am chief.

Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the ONLY God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen....

It is obvious that Gods FAVOR is no longer on this program because it has veered from the TRUE GRACE of the Lord Jesus Christ to the keeping of The Law, it now employs the OLD COVENANT truths to enslave its hearers to its rules and regulations thus making void the LIBERTY we have been given to LOVE and share in the NEW Covenant..
As Galatians 6 says so well...
As many WHO desire to make a fair SHOW in the flesh (their ability to keep the laws), they COMPELL you to be circumcised (keep the law)..LEST they should suffer persecution for the CROSS OF CHRIST!
Just as you said Jocelyn, it is all about the cross and work of Christ, if it is negated, Gods truth ceases and people are misled.

VERSE 13 For neither they they who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised (or keep the law), that they may glory in your flesh.

But God forbid that I should glory, EXCEPT in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, (HIS BURDEN & SACRIFICE not mine)
by whom the world is crucified to me, and I to the world.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a NEW CREATION OF GOD.

And to THOSE WHO walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy upon the Israel of God.

****

I love the PURE word of GOD it alone makes known what GOD would have us follow, trust i and believe.

May all of us esteem it greater than daily food and lovingly share the message of HOPE, deliverance and salvation through JESUS CHRIST
HIM ALONE (not our puny works filthy through our pride)
with everyone around us...

Great love to all in Christ and those to come into HIS family*

Blessings upon blessings,

Lisa Marie

 
At 11:10 AM, January 04, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know what! Mrs. Gwen is the most wise person i know and i am proud to say i am a member of Remnant Fellowship Church! you don't really know her!!! saying Mrs. Gwen is insane is like saying a slug can win a cross country race with a cheetah! So i beg to differ on our apauling comment!!

 
At 11:13 AM, January 04, 2008, Anonymous Mina said...

How dare you say that Mrs. Gwen is bad!!! Tell me were do you get this information?! Some mind crazed blogger on the Internet?! Leave Mrs. Gwen alone!!!!!!!!!

 
At 11:16 AM, January 04, 2008, Anonymous Mina said...

God, please bless the tresure seris!

 
At 3:20 AM, January 05, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the kind of stuff that keeps the unsaved, unsaved.

Can I just say to anyone who is unsaved and has happened upon this blog post and the sparring that has taken place since it was posted one crucial thing?

A favorite scripture of mine (and one that puts this whole Weigh Down Workshop/Gwen Shamblin fiasco into perspective) is Romans 14:17.

"For the kindgom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

In the infalliable words of Tiny Tim, "God Bless Us, Everyone."

 
At 7:36 AM, January 29, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good gracious*

Chapter & Verse PLEEEASE???

Wouldnt it be wonderful to have a delightful christian debate?

I have never call Ms Gwen insane, quite the contrary, I believe she is one of the most giving, caring, God fearing women I know...
But just as Paul the APOSTLE (before the LORD met him on the road to Damascus) had erroneaously forged ahead to hail christian men & women into prison BELIEVING he was doing a SERVICE to GOD.
These passionate people have cut themselves off from the HEAD and the BODY of Christ, isolating, critizing and condenming those outside its walls as counterfeits...
Blaspeming GODS holy spirit WHO INDEED is at WORK in every man, woman and child confessing and believing on the lORD JESUS CHRIST with all their hearts.
We should NEVER call unclean what GOD has called, chosen and sanctifying....
These lambs are sincere and need our prayers and fasting that GOD would reconcile them back to the tRUTH of the GOSPEL preached by OUR LORD JESUS and HIS disciples.
The LAW keeps us in bondage to the weak, for as the scripture says THE LAW MAKES nothing perfect BUTThe BRING IN of a BETTE HOPE DID! Hebrews...
IF they compell their followers to observe SOME of the law they are condenmed to KEEP IT ALL!
All 700! The blessings and cursings they enslave people to in Deuteronomy says is plainly...
It must be ALL KEPT, not just SOME of it..
That includes, the beatings, scourging, stoning, SACRIFICES, atonement offerings etc..
And with out breaking todays laws it cannot be done..
We are NOT at liberty to choose to KEEP some of the LAWS of MOSES!
It is all or nothing, of foolish Remnant Nation...
Why not, consider....
THE LORD was our schoolmaster to BRING us to CHRIST, CHRIST is the END of the LAW for RIGHTEOUSNESS to all who believe!
Repent of this mockery of the gospel of Jesus Christ, teaching HIS people to keep the Law of MOSES is an affront to the WORK of JESUS CHRIST, the second ADAM, The HIGH Priest, THE MESSIAH, who gave HIS life as a sacrifice for sin, the sins of the WHOLE world...
And ALL who confess Jesus as Lord and believe that GOD raised HIM from the dead, shall be saved ROMANS 10:9!
That is NOT my opinion but the HOLY word of GOD...
With great LOVE and care for everyone who reads...

Lisa Marie

 
At 1:38 PM, February 10, 2008, Anonymous Ex-WDer said...

As an ex-Weigh Down employee and Remnant member, let me make it perfectly clear that Remnant Fellowship is a cult and Gwen is unashamedly their leader.

RF members who have posted here have vehemently defended her, regurgitating most of her own jargon, but I would challenge them all to continue their dedication to "God alone" without Gwen. Move away. Get another job. Form your own fellowship of "true believers" – and do it all without ANY contact with Gwen. If you can't imagine it or bring yourself to do it, then folks, you're part of a cult. And your dedication is NOT to God alone, as you state... but to Gwen and her interpretation of God's will, which conveniently involves controlling the lives of hundreds who kowtow to her - hundreds who are so devoted to Gwen that they happily cut off contact with their families and friends. Hundreds who have moved to Nashville just to be closer to Gwen, many of whom she has bought houses, cars, clothes. Most of whom rely on Gwen for their very income. It's manipulation pure and simple.

And I fell for it, too. When I started working at Weigh Down, I was told outright by several employees that the way for me to be successful in the company was to just go along with whatever Gwen said. I was told that if I would acknowledge her as a prophet and always prove my loyalty to her, Gwen would be "very generous" in return. So I did, and even found myself believing it after a while. And sure enough, I rose rapidly in the organization. I was allowed to be part of her "inner circle" and entourage. I was given significant raises, year after year. I was taken on extravagant trips, all expenses paid. In short, I was seduced and manipulated into being a dedicated follower. Some warned me that at some point, I would be asked to cross a line that I would not want to. And when that day arrived, she would call upon all of her "generosity" as a means of control. And wouldn't you know it? She did. Once her church was on the rise and employees were forced to either join her church and pledge their loyalty or be fired, I reached that line I could not cross. And her response? "After ALL I've done for you!" After standing my ground and saying that I did not want to remain in her church, I was told that I would not be allowed to keep my job at Weigh Down.

Gwen has since "weeded out" the people like me – those who could not follow to the point of giving her full control of their lives. But I know where these people are coming from when they post here, defending her up and down. I know what they're feeling when they write, using her own words. Their very sense of financial, emotional, spiritual and psychological security is at stake. However they were seduced, they allowed themselves to cross that line into full control. And they cannot bring themselves to acknowledge the doubts that ARE there, under the surface. Because they have been conditioned that doubts are of Satan and the world. They have been conditioned that to disagree with Gwen or say anything negative about her is being disloyal and worthy of expulsion from the group. They say with all fervor that they are happy and able to be completely obedient to God. But day after day, the fear rises up within them – fear that they are not really good enough, fear that they are going to say or do something wrong in front of Gwen that would displease her, fear that when Gwen is talking of sin she's actually talking to THEM, fear that Gwen (and therefore God) doesn't really love them.

It makes me sad to even recount the emotions that I experienced, knowing that so many are mired in them now. But I hope and pray each day that these people will find the courage to take back the control they gave over to Gwen.

 
At 4:25 PM, February 11, 2008, Blogger J said...

I've seen publicity about them and have know someone in the church (don't know if they're still there)but i'm still in contact with them. Ex-wder, i read your post and you mention some scary sounding stuff, but what's the motive to bring people in? I know they used to NOT take collection, don't know if that's still the case. Why should people leave, disconnect and go it alone, like you said? Don't they need a leader, someone to teach them the Bible? It would scare me more to be alone with out any guidance. Also, isn't it against the law to hire or fire somebody based on age, race, sexual orientation, and RELIGION? How did she get away with firing you for not wanting to belong to the church? Not doubting your experience there, but the person i knew at the church never shared with me anything like that.

 
At 7:45 PM, February 12, 2008, Anonymous BD1421 said...

J,

Thanks for your comments. You asked two questions about motive:

1. What's the motive to bring people in?

This question refers to Gwen's motive, which as best I can tell, is an insane desire to control (as is seemingly the case with any cult leader). Money is not an issue for Gwen – believe me, she has PLENTY. A collection from members wouldn't even put a dent in what she can supply. Besides, if she funds everything, she truly retains control.

2. Why should people leave, disconnect and go it alone?

My statement regarding this was a challenge to the brainwashed who continually refute the idea that it is Gwen they follow and not God, even on this site. But if RF members are being truthful about their claim, they should have no trouble leaving Gwen's fold and continuing to grow their relationship with God. Other churches have members who do this all the time: some go off to do mission work, others move to take another job, still others feel called to another city for reasons they don't yet know.

But RF members don't follow this very normal practice. They huddle together, denouncing every other denomination and church in existence. They move to Nashville just to be closer to Gwen. And the only ones who leave are the ones who get pushed beyond that which they can bear, being ousted in shame. No, RF members can't dream of leaving. Their very identity is wrapped up in Gwen, Remnant Fellowship and "this message" that Gwen is teaching.

So back to your question... if they are not a cult, and if they are following God alone, as they say, then they should be able to leave Gwen and continue in their relationship with God just as effectively, even if it's under another "pastor."

As for your third question, Tennessee is an "at will" state – one of a few that allow employees to be fired for basically any reason. Still, many who were fired chose to sue Gwen for religious discrimination, but she settled out of court.

I hope that answers your questions. And I hope it is evident why I post here. I am amazed, after eight years of negative media, considerable documentation of Remnant being a cult, dropped representation from publishers, law suits, murder investigations, FBI raids and many, many personal accounts of spiritual and emotional abuse... I am amazed that people still even consider joining Weigh Down or Remnant. No matter how Gwen tries to spin her situation, she has done immeasurable damage to hundreds, if not thousands of people – with the potential to do much more. So as long as I continue to find blogs and articles in which people ask, "Has anybody tried Weigh Down? What do you think of it?" I will jump in and answer. If I can steer one person away from the pain I and dear friends endured, it is worth it.

 
At 8:18 AM, February 15, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good morning dear ones,

I agree very much that it is indeed disheartening to see so many of GODS people DRAWN away and seduced by the promise of weight loss, marital bliss and perfect kids...
These are wonderful and good things to have in ones life but it isnt the fruit GOD seeks nor is it the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ who is THE SHEPHERD of the sheep...
It is HIS voice we should hearken to... And his voice says"
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure YOU GIVE IT, it shall be measured to you again. (Boy oh boy you can see this measuring back into Remnant very truly, they have judged so often that they are CONSTANTLY under judgement) And why are you looking at the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but fail to consider the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how will you say to your brother, Let me pull out the mote out of your eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
We cannot avoid judging.
As stock in trade of the mind, appraisals are inevitable.
If we were witnesses to a flagrant violation of law in which innocent people were harmed, could we keep quiet because we are not to judge???????

Does not Jesus command us to judge in verse 6?
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."
Do we not have to judge or DECIDE who are "dogs" or "swine"? Considering verse 15 ("Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves"), do we not have to judge whether a man is a false minister?
Do we not have to reject his teaching based on an appraisal of his testimony against the weight of the gospel, the TESTIMONY of GOD?

We must therefore take care to understand clearly what Jesus means.
He obviously did not mean we should not judge at all.
Within the context of Luke 6:35-38 Jesus uses "Judge not, and you shall not be judged" to urge us to love our enemies, be merciful, forgiving, and generous.
This very greatly modifies Matthew's account, showing that "Judge not . . ." is a warning against self-righteous severity, sharp-tongued criticism, and condemnation.
Thus, it is not a command to be absolutely neutral and tolerant regarding moral issues NOR just ACCEPT every religious doctrine, but a warning to be careful and loving when we judge.
We can apply this admonishment to Romans 14:10-13 and James 4:11-12 as well.

There are practical reasons why Jesus would advise us about this. Of prime importance is that even though it is important that we judge rightly, it is even more important that we do not USURP the place of God!
OH REMNANT PLEASE HEAR THIS****

"Who are you to judge another's servant?
To his own master he stands or falls.
Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand" (Romans 14:4).

Paul begins this letter to the Romans calling himself a servant of Jesus Christ. He reminds us that we are all His servants (verses 7-8).
A servant does not have the same rights and responsibilities as a master!!!Though we are permitted the right of making an appraisal of conduct, we are not permitted the right of passing judgment upon a fellow servant . A fellow servant does not stand or fall at the bar of our judgment NOR MS GWENs.

The only judgment that matters is the judgment of our MUTUAL Master. If He is satisfied or displeased, He will act in His good time and in His way.
To usurp His responsibility is an act of sheer presumption and PRIDE which goes before our fall...

This in no way means we cannot approach or CONFRONT a brother or sister to inquire about and understand his conduct, doctrine etc, so that we might know whether our appraisal is correct.
Assuming that our intent in questioning him or HER is for his good, why would we even approach him?
Would it not be because our evaluation of his-her conduct, the DOCTRINE they are teaching had led us to conclude—yes, to judge—that he was in serious moral or spiritual trouble?

This would be an honorable approach
in the sight of GOD...

As I did when I sat with Remnant Fellowship writing, explaining, and beseeching to be heard regarding the scriptures & WHY I felt their doctrine was in GREAT ERROR regarding weddings, funerals, the gospel of Jesus Christ, keeping the Laws of Moses, the blasphemy of the SPIRIT working in ALL GODS chosen family outside of Remnant Fellowship.
I believe it is the SCRIPTURE,the HOLY scriptures alone that make us know truth from error, oppression verses the LIBERTY found in the NEW COVENANT, the LOVE and mercy GOD delights in, in the reconcilling work of the gospel...

Here is a RECENT excerpt from weigh down chronicles Feb 13th.
*******************************
Wednesday, February 13, 2008

V:1 N:105

The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body.
So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
1 Corinthians 12:12-13
These next sentences are GWEN Shamblins:

Unity is something that the world will not see.
The only thing the world has always united on is “the hate they have for those who adore God” – from Cain and Abel until today. The world hates the weight loss - because they hate self-denial and obedience and authority. They hate for someone else to do right and have self-control, for it makes their own seared conscience feel uncomfortable. They do not even know why they have feelings of hate - it is just automatic. They do not know how to look inward and analyze their own situations. Yes, the world is united on hate of those who love God and they surely hate one another – but they think that how they fight and communicate is “normal.” The world simply has not seen this kind of unity about obedience to God and His commands. Praise God that our eyes and hearts are opened! We are beholding a rare sight indeed! I pray that we all seek this with gratefulness and humility while we have the chance.

End of Ms Gwens words
**********************************

What message do YOU get when you read this?

Amazingly so this excerpt comes from 1 Corithians, where the TRUE GIFTS or manifestations of HOLY SPIRIT are found demonstrated and written for our admonition.
The gifts that GOD states are for the true edification of HIS people...
These gifts demonstrate the working of GOD through the spirit, in a believers life...

In all my time at Remant I did NOT see THESE FRUITS nor GIFTS, I saw the WORKs of human effort, fear based obedience, sensual constraint and was taught MANMADE traditions, rules and rendering...

What I marvel at is that they fail to see that these passages are NOT JUST for them, of REMNANT FELLOWSHIP*

These passages are written to ALL THE CHURCH of GOD, saved, sanctified through the sarcrifice of Jesus Christ our Messiah....

This UNITY IS found among the humble followers of Jesus Christ..

I know they are in my church, and many others I know who attend what REMNANT would say are counterfeits.

I see this unity and humility in others who are WALKING with GOD...

All of them, who are walking in the spirit and not in the SELF*ishness of the FLESH...

For some ODD reason Ms GWEN, is projecting hate, supposing hatred
coming from those who are not thin as she is, not as obedient as she?

I think the WORLD likes her , that is obvious from the magazines, tv spots etc, they probably think she is a bit weird, or flaky, but they are entertained by the thought of weight loss through faith, it is the church she gets the flack most from, in my humble observation...

Her self rightousness probably does make those who are relying upon Jesus and the righteousness by faith in Christ feel conflicted.

This is where GWEN should take a good look inward to see and understand WHY some are alarmed with her teachings...

But does anyone see the very subtle manipulation here?

It appears that she teaches that ONLY her way is pleasing to GOD, only her church has is right?

This is what bothers so many, because ALL those walking with GOD through Jesus our LORD are LOVED and accepted by HIM...

HE is teaching us ALL through HIS spirit....

I know my heart has no hatred for her, rather love, compassion and great hope that SHE will turn and see that it is the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ that must be lauded, preached and esteemed ABOVE her own religious teachings and surmisings...

I know this ONE THING,because I have NO hatred for her, nor those beautiful people of Remnant, I can take a stand for the TRUTH of the GOSPEL....In love and hope!
It is NOT personal at all...

The HOLY SCRIPTURES are precious to me and sadly I saw them used AGAINST Gods holy, called and chosen people at this specific church, which I wrote to them, stood before them in council and defended the gospel of the NEW COVENANT which was sealed with My Lords Bloods...Which I do cherish and find priceless...

I could not be a partaker of the slandering of GODs people through SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS based upon human commands and wisdom....

We must at all costs preserve the UNITY of Spirit in the BOND of PEACE, GODS UNITY, GODS CHOSEN, THE entire BODY of CHRIST (not only our church)by speaking the TRUTH IN LOVE to them all...


The truth we must live for is not the TRUTH we contrive, but the TRUE source of TRUTH is GOD through HIS holy WORD...ALONE*

This is the truth I stand for....

I am called to love, to serve, to give, to preach, to teach, to make disciples of Jesus Christ, not make disciples of Ms Gwen...

To our OWN MASTER we stand or fall....


Let us only have eyes, ears, hands and feet for HIM & HIS purposes...

With great love and respect for each of you,

Lisa Marie

 
At 4:07 PM, May 06, 2008, Blogger jackibar said...

I have been participating in WD classes online for 2 years. God has delivered me from over 100 lbs. through eating this way and turning to Him instead of food. However... the whole last year I got stuck and could lose no more weight even though I still have around 75 to go.

Every one of my coordinators were always so very helpful and sounded concerned genuinely about ME and I loved the support from those who have "been there, done that" with the eating/weight issue and could tell me I could do it too. However, when I started struggling, the tone seemed to change. I would get responses that basically said my problem was that I needed to leave my church (which I love and believe is TRULY a part of God's CHURCH) and join RF - that this is the ONLY way the rest of my weight would come off.

I thought it strange to think that God would use only ONE person/church on earth to reveal His TRUTH to - I could never completely buy into that and felt "sick to my spirit" is the only way I can describe it. A conviction that something was WRONG here (in WD/RF).

I'm still signed up for an online class but haven't felt like really participating lately since I'm reading more of the experiences of ex-RF people. I'm still stuck in weight - in fact I'm positive I've gained some back. It's weird - I feel like I'm rebelling against WD because "they lied to me".

How do you quit this?! Those of you who were in and left... How do you get your head straightened out to what's really truth and what's lies? How do you finish/continue losing the weight? I 100% believe that hunger-fullness IS God's way of eating and I do best with this method. Dieting only makes me crazy around food. But I can't seem to get back to eating hunger/fullness and I'm terrified of gaining more weight.

The "lure" of those happy-sounding, THIN people in WD/RF is so appealing - it's tempting to go back to that, but I'd gotten to where it wasn't helping any more any way - I'm guessing because I had gotten into a position of "struggling and striving" instead of "loving and trusting"...

Any insight would be appreciated!

 
At 8:45 PM, May 06, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi there,

From my own heart & experiences I only have good to share about hunger & fullness.
After the birth of our 4 & 5th (twins) I was almost 200 pounds.
WD helped me TURN my focus and I CHOOSE to become GOD MINDED and GOD MOTIVATED and GOD CENTERED, the result was that my weight corrected...
I am not 135 pounds and feel great, I have been out of RF since 12-07...
KEEP your heart on the PURPOSES of GOD for your life, you'll find that HE will LEAD you on to continuing to eat soundly...
Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater!
The principles are GODLY, the rest has just gotten BLURRED....
But I will ASSURE you of ONE THING...NOT all in Remnant are thin, far from it, a few are anorexic looking, the majority are NORMAL average weight but many are still overweight, even in leadership families, so dont get the wrong idea...
There are thin, average and overweight there just like everywhere else...
Stay focused on GOD the lure of FOOD FADES when our hearts are BUSY with HIS business...
I sure wish you all the best GOD has for you!
GODS word is PROVEN & FAITHFUL and HE IS COMMITED TO HELP YOU always!

Love & Joy,

Lisa Marie

 
At 8:55 PM, May 06, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oops, I meant I am 135 pounds, 5'6 and I do remember struggling when I was faced with confronting the facts that RF didnt hold fast to biblical truth, I recall gaining a few pounds almost in OPPOSITION to there dictates about being 5pounds over meant still somehow in SIN...
Get ROOTED & GROUNDED in the GENUNINE WORD OF GOD, uncorrupted by the ways of men...
Sincerity is never a guarantee of TRUTH*
Everything needs to WEIGHED and studied and lined up to the PURE word of GOD..
You will do well, JUST beseech the LORDS favor and mercy and intercesion for your heart as you go on to HIS blessed promised LAND
THE KINGDOM OF GOD*

Much love and hope to you,

Lisa

 
At 9:46 AM, July 06, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you to the anonymous posters (especially the one who posted on March 12, 2007 at 3:03 pm.) You so beautifully put into words the many doubts and questions I've had about Gwen's teachings. Especially the part about looking inward. As a Christian, that doesn't make sense. When I had an eating disorder years ago, that's all I did was look at myself. I have been healed of so much by getting away from myself and focusing on the great healing power of our Lord Jesus Christ and focusing on others and their needs. I feel like there are two Gwens. The Gwen of the Weigh Down book and the video tape series seems loving, open, encouraging, full of grace. Watching the original tapes and reading the Weigh Down book, I felt uplifted, wanting to please God.
Rise Above and the later CD's have a darker feel. I don't feel the hope I did with the earlier material. I also don't like that she uses her son's music. I think the music she used prior had a more uplifting feel. His music doesn't create uplifting feelings in me. Pride does come before the fall. I believe Gwen fell victim to pride. God blessed her with something great with Weighdown. It changed for the better so many people and brought them to Christ. Our strength in Christ comes from our humility. I feel she has lost that. It is too bad.

 
At 3:53 PM, July 20, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I too did the early WD program 1996 and lost 30 pounds and loved it. It helped my relationship with God to grow and that was what I loved about the program. Over the years I have strayed and the weight came back and my relationship with God wavied. So I decided to go back to WD in hopes that Gwen and the WD program could help me regain what I had let go and help me to get back in touch with God and stop focusing on food. I enrolled in an online class and started watching the videos and I too did not feel the same as I had the last time. Something was different. Gwen's message has changed. Each week I would find myself thinking that was not what I was taught about the scripture. I have a hard time with becoming sinfree also. Her last video in the class was to much for me. She was wanting us to question our church and if you had sinful people there get out. Everyone sins. Noone is perfect and can not be. She was not loving and caring and upbeat as before. I am sad and very disappointed in Gwen's lastest updates of the WD program. All the pictures and videos that she has I dont see any of her with her husband. She is with her children and other RF members but I cant find one with her and him. What is the deal there?

 
At 1:31 PM, July 26, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree about the lack of presence of her husband (especially in the family photos.) It is strange. Everything about her seems strange now. I have the old videos and there she seems wholesome and friendly and upbeat and encouraging. A woman you'd love to be friends with. Now, she is overly made up, severe looking, and her attitude is just harsher, and so legalistic. Sorry Gwen, but I think you were a true light for God before. It is sad because she had SO MUCH to offer SO MANY. And she was doing such a great work for the Lord.

 
At 6:25 AM, July 27, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Knowledge & Pride lift people into
a sad state of looking down on others...Critizing rather than encouraging...Judging and condenming rather than striving to reach & and save...Intolerance and anger rather than patience & forgiveness...
When people behold the TREE of Remnant Fellowship, what kind of fruit do YOU see?
Do you see the first or the latter?
You will indeed know them by their fruits...Not the attitude they show to THEIR own and those who bow down to them, but to those outside their realm, those they have dubbed "counterfeits" the so called unclean, those who in their eyes are LESS than, because they weigh more than they should...
The years of pruning with a razor sharp tongue has indeed made them injurious, quick to condemn those outside and unbelievably full of themselves..
Touting to have such GOOD fruit within their circle, not the fruit of humility & repentance nor the fruit of long suffering & kindness towards GODS world, but the fruit they TOUT and Pride themselves on is
Good marriages & thin bodies
(where is that fruit listed in the bible?)
They cannot even see what true fruit they are producing and that their thier Tree only stands because of the self sufficency of Ms Gwen...
"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of your burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot Stand it anymore; it is iniquity, even your solemn meeting. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, although you make many prayers, I will not hear: for your hands are full of blood.
Wash yourself, get clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."

Remember to whom God was speaking—His people, those with whom He had made the "Old" Covenant. He was angry that they went through these great rituals without the humility to submit to His great moral law
love, mercy, compassion in their daily lives.

We have the tendency to think of worship as something we do at a designated time and in a certain place, usually once a week. However, religion and worship in the biblical sense involve all of life. Christianity is a way of life (Acts 9:2; 19:9, 23; 22:4). Worship is the reflection of God living IN the person.
It is his response to God, his interaction with Him. Thus, the Bible covers every aspect of life within its pages.
A person truly interacting with God is worshipping & loving God at church, work, play, or home.
She or he will strive to glorify God in every situation, every day
towards everyone, especially those in Gods family and even to the extent of LOVING the enemies that they might come to repentance...
Remnant crumbles under its arrogance & divisivness separating itself from the HEAD (CHRIST) and the body of CHRIST thus there is no power, no love for those outside its busy amputated hand...



How can those who treat their fellows believers in CHRIST with contempt, then take their greed, anger, revenge, and hatred into church fellowship,SING ABOUT IT, say they are displaying God's Spirit?
These characteristics are divisive & disgusting to GOD who sent HIS SON to save not condemn.
How can they say they worship God?
Or are DOING HIS will?
Woe unto them, for they are deceived by their own beauty & self sufficency...
From 3 John 1:9
I wrote to this church: but Diotrephes who loves to have the preeminence among them, receives us not.
Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds, prating against us with malicious words: and not content with that, neither does NOT receive the brethren, and forbids them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that does good is of God: but he that does evil hath not seen God.

Pray for Those of Remnant Fellowship and all our beloved family...

ASK GOD daily that IF IN ANY area
we are deceieved to make that known CLEARLY...
In this world of perpetual distraction, It is easy to veer away from the TRUTH of the scriptures and get lost, ask YOUR GREAT SHEPHERD YOUR LORD JESUS CHRIST to come & seek and save you from the perils that lie outside of HIS blessed will...
My Love to you all, may we all take THE MASTERS hand and follow faithfully into the KINGDOM of GOD...
Joyfully living & serving Christ,

Lisa Marie

 
At 6:22 PM, August 01, 2008, Blogger unanimous said...

I am a current member of Remnant and recently I have not been feeling good about my membership in this organization. I have been taught to dismiss any critisizm of the church as persecution. I was prompted by God to search things out for myself and what I found is nothing but confirmation of what everyone is saying is true. I feel a lack of love in this place and what I see is judgemental spirits, self-righeousness, and pride. I know too much of God's love to agree with the teachings anymore. Please, if you feel led to pray for me and my family that we get the wisdom and strength that we need to get out. I agree with most of what was posted here about how Gwen has went to left field.

 
At 12:22 PM, August 03, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I will pray for you and I know God will help you and your family find the right place for you to worship. Just keep praying.

 
At 8:59 AM, August 04, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dearest Friend,

I am praying mightily for you & your family.
I am excited also for you because there is TRUTH, LOVE & Light outside of Remnant Fellowship!
I welcome you to write privately to me...
I would gladly pray with you and share with you some WONDERFUL churches which can help you continue on your glorious path to the Fathers Heart...
The scripture I feel the Lord wants me to share with you are these...
Those who HUNGER & thirst after righteousness shall be filled!
And from Philipians Chapter ONE:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I thank my God in all my remembrance of you,

always offering prayer with joy in my every prayer for you all,

In view of your participation in the gospel (good news)from the first day until now.

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

For it is only right for me to feel this way about you all, because I have you in my heart, since both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers of grace with me.

For God is my witness, how I long for you all with the affection of Christ Jesus.

And this I pray, that your LOVE may abound still more and more in ALL real knowledge and all discernment,

so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;

having been filled with the fruit of righteousness WHICH COMES THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, to the glory and praise of God.

My email addy is:

lisamarieg@msn.com
You are loved and there are MANY
who can help you find peace amidst
the tainted doctrines that exist in this present time...

And the solemn GRIP these doctrine have had on the heart...

Your eyes are OPEN, YOUR heart KNOWS the prodding of GODS spirit within, CRYING out against the subtle manipulation of GODs HOLY scriptures which were never meant to enslave nor corral us back under the Law of MOSES!
ONE greater than MOSES has come as the scripture states and HE is THE WAY, The truth and THE LIFE!
He DOES NOT PREACH WEIGHT LOSS , HE DOES NOT PREACH thinness, good marriages etc...
Our LORD JESUS preaches the GOSPEL of SALVATION, The coming Kingdom of GOD and the FREE GIFT of eternal
life to all who WILL FOLLOW HIM, in love...
God did NOT send HIS SON to condemn the world but that thw WORLD through HIM might be saved....

Be at peace and WALK in the liberty wherewith GOD has made you free...

Love and great Joy for you,

Lisa

 
At 12:18 AM, August 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

An old thread I see, but recent posts. I have been free of Remnant since for almost 2 yrs and still fight with the lies I believed for so long. God pulled me out Himself. At the time, I even questioned whether it was demonic leading, but I know without a doubt that it was God that spoke to me that day. God led me to a Walk to Emmaus weekend and there I found the grace of God that somehow had eluded me my entire life. I finally know God's love for me. When I was in Remnant, I was afraid and constantly guilty that I was not good enough to make it. I felt like God was holding a gun to my head constantly (One extra bite and you go to hell mentality). How could I love a God so easily swayed in His love?! I couldn't. And I resented Him for expecting perfection from an imperfect person.

My relationship with God has grown immensely since I realized that He DOES love me! He still calls me in the night, He answers my prayers, He gives me signs, and yes, I still see cardinals quite often (cardinals were a sign of God's blessing or happiness at the time I was with Remnant--not sure if they still are).

I have no ill feelings toward anyone with Remnant. I met many very devoted and wise Christians at Remnant. By that, I mean very humble, giving individuals. Very pleasant people to spend time with. BTW, the young poster on this blog is not an example of what I experienced with Remnant members--she must be young indeed with that language (screwed, crap, psycho).

One thing I have taken with me is the blessings and curses. It is a cause and effect fact of life--eat little, get thin. Don't overspend, finances better. This is the reason Remnant members look the part--they make wise decisions in life.

Speaking of Gwen's husband, I believe he is very overweight--thus why missing in pictures. (Just a guess). I also must say that Gwen is a good example of giving authority to her husband. The "prophetess" does put her husband above everything. I definately took that with me also when I left.

I still try to have a relationship with a Remnant member. I say try, because every time I respond to her email, I am sent a WD link for the next event. It is indeed a deep hole --they cannot leave until they see the error and danger. There is so much gratitude to Gwen for helping them change their lives.

 
At 3:58 AM, August 25, 2008, Anonymous lilyblossom said...

I just wanted to say that there is an alternative to Weigh Down. It is called Thin Within. If you go to thinwithin.org you will see that it is a grace based Christian Weight Loss that was founded BEFORE WD! There are meetings at local churches, forums etc.

 
At 10:09 PM, September 07, 2008, Blogger Angie said...

There is also www.settingcaptivesfree.com
All of their online classes are FREE! Can't beat that! You get a mentor assigned to you also. The food/weightloss class is called "The Lord's Table".

 
At 6:38 PM, September 26, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My Southern Baptist church enthusiastically embraced the Weigh Down Workshop in early 1999. The class leader was a church member who had lost 75 pounds on Weigh Down. She had the full support of the pastoral staff. The first meeting was standing room only. Over the next 10 months I went from a size 24 to a size 12. I also joined a gym and began working out. Many others in our WD class lost significant amounts of weight. As soon as one class ended, a new one began. It did get boring watching the same videos repeatedly, but I was actually afraid to be without my WD fix. I was so firmly grounded in my faith and beliefs that nothing Gwen said influenced me otherwise, although I did think she sounded a little fanatical at times. Our class leader was featured in Gwen's second book, Rise Above. Over time, Weigh Down's popularity began to wane, mainly because there was nothing new, only the same old videos. No one heard anything about the Remnant Fellowship or Gwen's views on the Trinity until the summer of 2001. Weigh Down Advanced had just come out and our WD leader persuaded the pastor to let her lead a class beginning in September. The pastor's wife had lost 50 pounds on Weigh Down, when she had never been able to lose weight before, so perhaps he was influenced by that. With misgivings, he allowed WD Advanced to proceed. This time only about 30 people showed up. We were leery because we could only receive a refund during the first week, whereas with the original Weigh Down we had two weeks. The first video was cleverly designed to allay our fears. Gwen, looking emaciated since she had lost even more weight, merely went over the basic Weigh Down principles again. Each succeeding week, though, Gwen on video became a raging harridan as she urged us to leave the "counterfeit church" to "rebuild the wall." The videos were rather poorly done, with misspellings such as "Sampson" for "Samson". Several women from the class thought of going to the pastor and getting him to stop WD Advanced because the principles taught were clearly against what the Bible said. But they loved the leader and didn't want to upset her, so they decided not to say anything. They did not return to the class, however. By the end of the class, only 6 people remained. I was disgusted that I had wasted my money on such tripe, and was shocked as I began to surf the internet to find out more about Gwen and the Remnant Church. Many churches in our area who had held Weigh Down classes no longer did, our church was among these. I still have the tapes and workbooks from the original Weigh Down, I threw out those from Advanced. They were just too weird. I'm glad I was in Weigh Down, but I think Gwen is a nut!

 
At 6:50 AM, November 16, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good morning,

I cant just leave this thread ending on such a note...

When we come to GOD through Our Lord Jesus Christ, we have much
learning to do...And UNLEARNING..

Some need more love and training than others before they can successfully live the christian life.
Lets not label anyone a "nut" because they have views that differ from ours.
I do believe in defending the gospel but not by demeaning anyone who is sincerely following Our Lord...
No one can say (who knows Ms Gwen)
that she does not love GOD and have a ZEAL for His House...No one...
She does, so she is HIS pupil, HIS daughter and she like each of us is being trained for GODS Kingdom and prepared...
To her own MASTER she will stand or fall...As we all....

They teach wonderful principles at Remnant, principles that when applied will bear fruit BUT that IS BECAUSE of OUR GOD, HE has HIS Statutes, tesimonies and truths , that when we are wise to heed them , we are the BETTER!

Now, of course,
I wish they wouldnt isolate themselves from the rest of the body of CHRIST, I wish they wouldnt blaspheme the holy spirit by negating HIS WORK in every OTHER believers life and church.

That to me, is the most frightening
aspect, and I feel that we should warn in LOVE to help our brothers and sisters, not shun, judge and condemn them..

Every HONEST, competent, bible student will have to come and face
DOCTRINE and follow GOD above the TRADITIONS of Man.
We cannot follow our Lord Jesus the MESSIAH and still heed the commandments of man...
You cant serve two...
I dont care one bit about popular
beliefs, I dont follow the masses in doctrine.
I dont believe that just because Pastor SO & SO says something, that that MAKES IT TRUE.

I only TRUST in, Study and follow the BIBLE, especially those portions addressed to the FOLLOWERS of Jesus, not Moses, there are TWO different COVENANTS
in the bible...
The LAW which is meant to bring us TO CHRIST and the perfect Law of liberty , The NEW COVENANT in which ALL the followers of Jesus have neen redeemed from the CURSES of the LAW* We are NO longer under the curse of the lAW, but have been called into ONE BODY, the ekklesia, the called of Jesus Christ and all that are accepted by HIM, are to be accepted by me...
Now, how do I REALLY know if someone is following Christ?
We DONT, we simply dont and cant, we are told to LOVE and honor all men, we CAANOT judge who is really his and who isnt...The angels at the END of this age will seperate the TARES from the WHEAT, the SHEEP from the goats.PERIOD*
We can by the DIRECTION of someones life make an appraisal, those who LOVE GOD,will SERVE GOD, They talk of God, they are willing, obedient, filled with love and humility, if they are walking by the spirit, then you should see LOVE, JOY, FAITH, GOODNESS< KINDNESS< MEEKNESS< PATIECE and self control...
But there are MANY immature in the faith, who although called and invited of The Lord are still walking in the flesh....
Then you see the works of the fLESH ,
( From Galatians 5:
Fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties,

envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you, that they who practise such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

meekness, self-control; against such there is no law.

And they that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts thereof. )

So we need to help in MEEKNESS our brothers & sisters caught up in these things so they DONT FORFEIT
the Coming Kingdom...

So, in summary, lets not throw stones at each other, lets encourage one another in the truth!

So that we ourselves arent turned away from it...

Gwen is not a nut, she has been misled BUT I trust that even NOW GOD is very concerned with her life and is teaching her as HE is us all, to HIS GLORY & praise...

None of us is a FINISHED WORK!
The more time each of us spends in GODS PRESENCE, Ready to HEAR, with OPEN HEARTS and BIBLES, the more we will GROW up to look like HIM in all things...

And always remember the promise...
He who has begun a GOOD WORK IN YOU , will CONTINUE that WORK till the day of Jesus Christ!

Phillipians*Chapter ONE is a great place to end today*

May we ALL hearken to the inspired words of the apostle Paul and think this way towards each other.
And PRAY these prayers for one another...Philippians 1



Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, to ALL the saints in Christ Jesus that are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I thank my God upon all my remembrance of you,

always in every supplication of mine on behalf of you all making my supplication with joy,

for your fellowship in furtherance of the gospel from the first day until now;

being confident of this very thing, that HE who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ:

even as it is right for me to be thus minded on behalf of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as, both in my bonds and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers with me of grace.

For God is my witness, how I long after you all in the tender mercies of Christ Jesus.

And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and all discernment;

so that ye may approve the things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and void of offence unto the day of Christ;

being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are through Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Great love to you all in the powerful and exalted name of Our Lord Jesus Christ,

lisa Marie**************

 
At 10:57 PM, November 21, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lisa Marie, that is a beautiful post. I agree with what you say.

 
At 9:08 PM, December 29, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it says a lot that ever since ExWder posted his/her experience all the RF's have no comment because they know it's true.;) Good going ExWder!

 
At 8:03 AM, February 12, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is a PHARISEE?
Where did they come from?
What did Jesus think of their practices?

The Pharisee:
They were noted for their steadfastness. The name Pharisee in its Semitic form means "separated one, separatist." Pharisees were known also as the Hasidim, meaning "loved of God" or "loyal to God." Of all the Jewish sects (including also Sadducees, Herodians, Zealots, Essenes, et.al.), this was acknowledged as the most separated and steadfast to God, the "strictest sect" of the Jewish religion (Acts 26:5).

They were noted for their knowledge. The Jewish historian Josephus acknowledged them as "the most accurate exegetes of the law." They were associated with the scribes, "teachers of the law" (e.g. Luke 5:17). Christ said, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do" (Matthew 23:2f).

They were noted for their exactness. They would even "pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin" (Matthew 23:23), stringently ascertaining that their tithing extended even to the leaves grown in their herb gardens.

They were noted for their soul-winning. Christ acknowledged that "you travel land and sea to win one proselyte" (Matthew 23:15).

They were noted for their works. Their charitable deeds, prayers, fastings, and all other religious duties were highly lauded by their countrymen (Matthew 6:1ff).

They were noted for their righteousness. When Saul of Tarsus exemplified them, he was "concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless" (Philippians 3:5f). They had well earned the honor of being distinguished as the most righteous people in their religion.

Jesus Christ nevertheless warns us to "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees" (Matthew 16:6). The "leaven" of the Pharisees was their "doctrine" (v.12). Jesus Christ here used "leaven" as an emblem of an impurity which permeates and makes unacceptable all with which it comes in contact (as in Exodus 12:15, 19).

As we have already observed (as in Matthew 23:2f), the doctrine of the Pharisees was in many ways orthodox. But it erred with regard to what they believed about free will and personal righteousness. They were foremost among those of whom it is written, "For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God" (Romans 10:3). Christ therefore warns us that "unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:20).

Pharisees would acknowledge that God's Word teaches native depravity and unrighteousness (Psalm 51:5; Ecclesiastes 7:20). (But the doctrine of total depravity they would never acknowledge.) They would acknowledge also that it teaches that the only righteousness is of Jehovah alone (Jeremiah 23:6; Isaiah 54:17).

But they erred in believing that His righteousness had been imparted or infused into themselves, and that this enabled themselves in their "zeal for God" to keep His law and thereby "establish their own righteousness" - a personal and/or self-righteousness through God. This accounted for their "holier than thou" attitude (Isaiah 65:5), as Pharisees were "the holiest of the holiers."

To such persons Paul the apostle declares, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" (Romans 10:4). We cannot keep the law of God (Romans 3:10-20). But Christ did (Matthew 5:17). Through faith in Him, His righteousness is imputed unto us in an act of forensic justification (Romans 3:21-4:8). Christ's imputed righteousness is therefore the only righteousness which entitles sinners to the benefits of salvation and to entrance into glory and eternal bliss (Philippians 3:7-9; Revelation 19:8; 1 Corinthians 1:30f).

The justified therefore confess that "all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6), and of being in and of themselves "chief of sinners" (1 Timothy 1:15), a "wretched man" (Romans 7:24), "a maggot" and "a worm" (Job 25:6). And they confess to God, "I will make mention of Your righteousness, of Yours only" (Psalm 71:16).

But this confession would never be uttered from the lips of self-righteous Pharisees. They must boast of at least some degree of personal righteousness. But even this little degree is damning. As the tiny bit of yeast eventually permeates the whole loaf, a tiny bit of self-righteousness permeates the whole of one's religion, thereby polluting it in its entirety. (Now read the contexts of all the texts formerly cited which named the traits for which Pharisees were noted.)

Therefore, in spite of being such paragons of religion, Christ in Matthew 23 calls the Pharisees "hypocrites," "sons of hell," "blind guides," "fools and blind," "whitewashed tombs," "sons of those who murdered the prophets," and "serpents, brood of vipers."

It is with good reason that Christ admonishes us to "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees." The only righteousness ascribed to the saints in Holy Scriptures is the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. Take heed and beware of him who speaks of any other.

 
At 9:11 AM, March 25, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good morning everyone:
Woke up early today, I am stirred in my spirit about God's heart toward idolatry.
I haven't really given idolatry much thought in my life, I feel I haven't allowed a RIVAL to live in my heart to wage war against the allegiance to MY GOD, MY KING, MY MASTER, My life and My all...
Most of you know, I enjoyed the Weigh Down Diet after the birth of my twins Gia & David.
I began to follow the teachings of Gwen Shamblin in 2001, I have NO doubt that Miss gwen's sweet heart of devotion, opened her up to receive the most wonderful wisdom & revelation in this matter of food, hunger and how it can relate to GOD.
I believe GOD gave it to her so that she would bless, help and encourage others who were indeed struggling with a wayward heart, who was mistakenly filling its emptiness & longing with excess food RATHER than the Will Of God at any given moment...
Sadly over the past ten years Ms Gwen turned that revelation from GOD to help HIS church into her own CHURCH & religion, mixing law , works & grace, thus snatching the GLORY & followers from God and HIS word .
She is head over REMNANT Fellowship Church in beautiful Brentwood TN...
While living in NY, I listening eagerly to her teachings about the SIN of man, gluttony, greed etc...
She began to OPEN my eyes to all the "perceived " hypocrisy and half heartedness in the church, especially pointing a finger at the leaders in all other churches...
Subtle sentences, like "IF your church allows sinners to sit on their pews then they are counterfeits"
Now how I missed the truth of what Jesus taught about COMING TO SAVE sinners, and to seek that which is lost in beyond me, nevertheless, I wanted PERFECTION~
I wanted what they said they had~ PERMANENT WEIGHT LOSS, GOOD marriages and obedient children" YES!
I wanted those things, and since we were planning a move to TN & needed to find a STRONG church, this MUST have been the WILL OF GOD I affirmed.
Now HEARING from a distance was FAR different from becoming ONE of THEM in reality, for ONE must completely abandon & forsake what was previously learned.
Is it very tempting to do so??? But I knew something was erroneous....
YES it is tempting because these people WERE the EPITOMY of NICE~They had a group of over 50 people help move us in, the ladies, helped me unpack, helped us with the children, made meals for us and were just the most generous people you could imagine~ I PRAISE GOD for every good thing in that beautiful group!
The actual Church is BREATHTAKINGLY beautiful, I don't have words to convey the greatness of that building Gwen wanted and built for GOD and HIS people.
Sometimes, I visit the grounds and cry, over their error and Satans plots against them using them to LURE many who are DESPERATE to LOSE weight.
Anyway, I was INSTANTLY aware that the WORD of GOD was NOT the most esteemed AUTHORITY in the group, but painfully saw ALL authority was given to LEADERSHIP.
I also noticed that they relied MORE on the COVENANT given to Moses, than The One of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
How so you might ask?
A VERY HEAVY YOKE and EMPHASIS is put on keeping the law, OBEYING, and the blessings & cursing's in Deuteronomy 28...
Getting YOUR FLESH to OBEY and lay down all sin, as say they "they have"
Now, most of you know, I have been a follower of THE LORD JESUS CHRIST since 1992, I have seen the GENUINE UP close, I have seen the BOOK of ACTS alive~
Seen the HOLY SPIRIT AT WORK* Moving amongst the churches as GOD directs and orchestrates all...
I witnessed our Lord Jesus work HIS reconciling power and lifesaving, life changing Will In the hearts of HIS TRULY devoted people throughout my Christian life...
To ALLOW JESUS CHRIST to LIVE through US and DO HIS work, the WORK HIS FATHER gave HIM to do here, is what HE COMMANDED us to be busying our lives with...
What did Jesus do here?
Did he preach WEIGHT LOSS? ( Didn't the pharisees accuse him of being a glutton?)
Did he say FOLLOW me and get a perfect marriage?
Was HIS commison "Go into all the world and PREACH hunger & fullness to every man!" Did he say "THESE SIGNS shall follow those who believe, IN MY NAME they shall be SKINNY, THEY SHALT have obedient kids, THEY shall CLOSE off ALL TIES with all other churches"???
I think not...
NOW this is where it becomes very IMPORTANT to me...
Is Our Lord Jesus directing the show???
Is our lord JESUS CHRIST the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE?
Are we supposed to KEEP the law of Moses? Hasnt one GREATER than MOSES come??? Hebrews 3:3
Can we, NO its impossible today because a majority of the 600 are UNLAWFUL presently (sacrifices etc, stoning and the like)
What did Paul CONTEND with the GALTIANS over??? I BEG you all to read GALATIANS to see what GOD thinks, of ANOTHER gospel~
What does it mean for us to be REDEEMED FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW??? Read GAL 3:13.. Is the bible true????
Is Remnant preaching another gospel?
Are they going into the world and preaching the GOOD news of SALVATION and the coming KINGDOM of GOD? NO*At least not while I was among them.
They preach REMNANT and HOW Gwen has SAVED their lives through WEIGH DOWN.
Do they preach the gospel of Jesus Christ at all? NO...Do they even BELIEVE ROMANS?
Not that is said...OR DONE...I have never seen them just PREACH Jesus Christ the LORD as the ATONEMENT for sin....
I belive REMNANT is an ULTIMATE test, of YOUR LOYALTY to GOD and HIS WORD over man...and his (HER) word.
*********************************************
I think of Jesus being OFFERED ALL the glory and power satan had to give in Matthew 4:8-10
Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me" Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”
**********************************************************
The followers of ms gwen have a GREAT devotion and loyalty to her, they WORSHIP her and RF, even when I behold their facebook profiles, 95%
of their followers when asked their religious VIEWS:
Do they say CHRISTIAN? Disciples of CHRIST? GODs children? Bible believers?
No consistenly they say REMNANT FELLOWSHIP~
They identify themselves NOT with the CHRIST who is the SAVIOUR of mankind but RF their savior, sadly, so very sadly...

While at Remnant I heard so many QUESTIONABLE absolutely SHOCKING biblical errors.
They forbid their followers to visit or attend other churches, NOT even for a wedding or funeral of a loved one, which is a method of control...
She says "We are taking stand against SIN" ASSUMING that EVERY OTHER church is SINFUL~ That was taught~
I think its control, satanic control OVER GODS people who must NEGATE the GOSPEL of GOD for the gospel of Ms Gwen.

Jeremiah 17~ Hit it on the head this week...As I thought upon it...
Just to let you all know, I WENT before them WITH all these things, there WAS so much, I cannot even write about all the pathetic out of context beliefs they cleave to, REJECTING THE LORD JESUS GOSPEL FOR HUMANITY
to PREACH their own...contrived religion...


Jeremiah 17:4
Thus says the LORD:
“ Cursed is the man who trusts in man
And makes flesh(man) his strength,
Whose heart departs from the LORD.
For he shall be like a shrub in the desert,
And shall not see when good comes,
But shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness,
In a salt land which is not inhabited.
“ Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD,
And whose hope is the LORD.
For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters,
Which spreads out its roots by the river,
And will not be concerned when heat comes;
But its leaf will be green,
And will not be anxious in the year of drought,
Nor will cease from yielding fruit.
“ The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
I, the LORD, search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give every man according to his ways,
According to the fruit of his doings...

God has given them OVER to what they LUSTED after, thinness, good marriages etc....
The people are BOWING down and DOING the WILL of Remnant.
Preaching weigh down and remant and NOT the gospel of peace written throughot the NEW COVENANT (which GOD says in HEBREWS is the BETTER covenant, sealed with the BLOOD of JESUS the new and living WAY)
Why has all this surfaced now???
I really enjoy facebook, I REALLY enjoyed weigh down THE ORIGINAL weigh down was GOD given , BLESSED and favored by God and man.
It was given to help GODS people see and realize how simple it is to turn from food to HIM*
So I joined the WEIGH DOWN group here on facebook~
I made some friends, sharing encouragement and helpful tidbits from the group, MANY REMNANT people are on it, and are POINTING Gods seeking people to RF, the you tube testimonies, which truly ALL say the SAME thing,
"I was once a BIG fat, GREEDY, LUST FILLED & DECIEVED person BUT because of WEIGH DOWN, I am now skinny, happy and godly"
Not once did I hear praise for the LORD JESUS CHRIST who IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH and the LIFE, THE mediator of the NEW COVENANT, the mediator between GOD and man, the man CHRIST JESUS...Not once...
Anyway, one of my new friends is going to REMNANT fellowship, they are contending for her OBEDIENCE...
Obedience to WHAT???
Hunger & Fullness~THE manmade rules of Remnant Fellowship...
Its just another form of SLAVERY, from the slavery of the sin of glutony to the sin of rejecting GODS gospel of YOUR salvation, to keep laws, traditions etc of another....
Do we LOVE jESUS CHRIST???

Is CHRIST living HIS LIFE THROUGH YOU???
IS HE your MASTER, DIRECTION and FOCUS???
Is HE your LORD & Saviour?
Then FOLLOW HIM~
PREACH HIS WORD
SHARE HIS salvation message with others...
Have fellowship with ALL those who call upon HIM!

Lets face it, IF JESUS is directing you, living in you to BE HIS AMBASSADOR
Then it is ALL ABOUT HIM* God has HIGHLY EXALTED HIM~
He obeyed God to the death, to offer his life for the SINS of the world (hebrews 9) having PERFECTED FOREVER those who are sanctified by HIM! PERIOD!
Its NOT JESUS CHRIST and hunger & fulness~
Hebrews 10:9

Then He (Christ) said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL OH GOD." He takes away the first in order to establish the second. (covenant)

By THIS we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all.

Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;

but THIS MAN, having offered one sacrifice for sins FOREVER, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,

waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.

For by one offering He has perfected FOREVER those who are sanctified.

And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,"
He then says,
AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.....
***********************************************************************************************
THIS IS GODS word, & GODs will for us* And we must recognize the plan of satan to get us to PREACH, FOCUS on, direct our lives to ANYTHING less....

If CHRIST is IN YOU, the body of flesh is DEAD (romans)
You are to live for HIM~
When CHRIST is directing our life, we arent concerned about what we eat, what to drink, what to wear etc...

To squander GODS time eating too much would be foolishness, it steals our time & HEALTH for serving HIM, but ONLY CHRIST can make us FREE INDEED and that is THROUGH SERVING HIM, being his disciple, being filled with HOLY SPIRIT (power from on high) seeking HIS heart, finding YOUR place & PURPOSE in HIS BODY (the familly of GOD)

The original weigh down is excellent, it works because GODS principals are behind it, but that crafty ole devil LOVES to take GODS wonderful gifts and turn them into IDOLATRY...

Gods gospel of salavtion is clearly written and should be followed to life everlasting, SINCE gwens gospel is NOT the same as we read,

then beware
you just might be sinking into IDOLATRY....

I write this in LOVE and SO want to reconcile and share TRUTH with RF and everyone....

I love them because GOD LOVES THEM and wants their DEVOTION to be for HIM, their passion to be for HIM~ Their preaching to be HIS PLAN~ HIS SON alone! Jesus Christ Our Lord!
To whom be praise FOREVER and ever....amen....

 
At 10:15 AM, March 25, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That last post about the history of WD and how it was original "good" and godly but has grown into much more was right on target! You've explained this better than anyone I've heard before, so thank you for that!

 
At 8:22 AM, March 27, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks....
Ive given this alot of thought, Im saddened over what happened to Ms Gwen.
The ORGINAL Weigh Down was GOD given, GOD blessed, He beheld her beautiful heart desirous to BLESS & encourage his people out of weight problems...
He gave her glorious simple truths, she penned them and HE blessed it, He gave her book and class GREAT favor...
He allowed her to profit from it as well, as HIS gracious manner is!
But when her heart became lifted up,
when she became offended due to her understanding of who GOD was and who Jesus was, she and her YES men, were TRICKED, the devil, cunning and crafty convinced her to turn this wisdom from God into a CHURCH of her own, and the message of HOPE became a MESSAGE of judgement, RULES, condemnation,
THE GLORY departed after WDA, this class is SO AGAINST the TRUTH of Gods word, I shudder, it is a call to LEAVE ones own church and join hers, a FINGER POINTING, blaspehmous class, which causes one to JUDGE others, seperate, think oneself better than the next because of weight or self righteousness. After WD advanced,
she CHANGED drastically, and that ministry has never recovered because WDA is NOT of God, it is the EPITOME of self right behavior,
judgement and the like, a BLOT, in Gods hEART towards mankind which HE loves BY HIS GREAT GOODNESS leads man to true repentance!
I believe it has crumbled ever since, but still attracts the DESPERATE, those who DO NOT know the scriptures rightly.
She corrals them back under various laws and rules, BUT my heart CRIES for her...
I went to her, went before them all, still do, my heart for them all is that GOD would get through to them and release the control, release the MERCHADISING IN his name.
He will NOT be used...
His HOUSE is not to be a place of merchandise...

Oh Remnant, please, please repent, and let your heart be humbled, get rid of the BONDAGE, the control and the blasphemy of Gods spirit.
If GOD chooses ANYONE, I am to accept them, love them and care for them...
I speak openly ALWAYS....
May God show mercy on us all as we learn to WALK in HIM*
Lisa

 
At 6:19 PM, June 28, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello,
I am having some misgivings about WD. I only attend a local home-based class filled with very sweet, lovely ladies but...something in me feels uncomfortable.

Could I talk here without condemnation?

 
At 7:58 AM, July 07, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What are you experiencing?ASK THEM~
If I am wrong PLEASE teach me in love & meekness, come & see me, my life is an open book known and read of all, I have great love for each of Gods precious PREDESTINED, hand picked children...

SPIRITUAL fornication & Idolatry:

Causing a follower of Jesus Christ to adopt a doctrine which USURPS the authority of Holy Scripture.

Doctrine which seeks to have the believer BE JOINED to a church, a MESSAGE OR LEADER" other THAN Jesus Christ our LORD.

Teaching a PERVERTED gospel OTHER than the ONE God has set forth causing the individual to turn and follow worship and serve THAT message, that GOSPEL, THAT leader other than CHRIST.

This is a very serious ISSUE, we have no right to SEDUCE anyone into following us, our church, our understanding.
Its Jesus CHRIST, HIS LORDSHIP, HIS GOSPEL HIS whole church we are to love & serve by following him....

"To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze.
I know your WORKS, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.
Nevertheless, I have this against you:
You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach
And By her teaching she misleads my servants into fornication and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.
I have given her time to repent of her fornication, but she is unwilling.
So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit FORNICATION with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.
I will strike her children dead.
Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.
Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets
(I will not impose any other burden on you):
Only hold on to what you have until I come.
To him who overcomes and does MY WILL to the end, I will give authority over the nations—
'He will rule them with an iron scepter;
he will dash them to pieces like pottery'— just as I have received authority from my Father.
I will also give him the morning star. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches

Some QUESTONS to ask YOURSELF in order to PROVE all things:

 
At 7:58 AM, July 07, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you being SEDUCED into another GOSPEL?
Are you in danger of spiritual FORNICATION?
Idolatry???

Do you follow Christ or a specific leader?

If that leader were taken out of the picture are you still following CHRIST?

Does your church teach you to OBSERVE anything outside of SCRIPTURE revelant to the NEW COVENANT ordained by JESUS CHRIST?

For instance the Roman Catholics pray repetitiously, pray to saints, forbid to marry, and abstain from meats on Friday EVEN though its apparent in Scripture to be wrong???

Are you commanded to keep the feast of unleavened bread?

Old Covenant laws?

If Jesus Christ diected you to leave your CHURCH and begin another for HIM would you?

Would your leader approve and welcome you decision to follow CHRIST and do that?

Does your leader excuse passages from the bible by confusing the issue, or
OVER explaining it till it makes no sense?

Do they disregard ANY passage of the bible for their own DOCTRINE or rules?

Do they USE scripture to make THIER DOCTRINE the ONLY right way?

Does your church feel they ALONE are the body of CHRIST?

Does your church welcome open accountale biblical discussion and debate?

Does anyone question the doctrine?

Does your private reading of Gods words obviously leave you thinking
HMMM, that just doesnt sound right?

Do you fellowship with OTHER churches?

Do you believe other churches are not right with God?

Are your leaders elevated among you?

Do they come to your home, or neighborhood to share the message of Jesus Christ?

Do they glory in the flesh????

Do they LOOK on the outward appearance to judge others???

Do they INSIST that you only READ their writings, interpretations etc?

Does your leader seem to have direct access to GOD where you on the other hand are weak and less able to receive revelation of The LORD?

Do you PREACH your leader or church rather tha Jesus Christ the LORD?

Do you think it is your leader which has gotten you t his far OR Jesus CHRIST?

Who gets the credit for deliverance? Your church? YOur message? Or Jesus CHRIST?

If your church DISAPPEARED today, would YOU be able to live a SUCCESSFUL CHRISTIAN life ???

Do you depend on your church for TRUTH or the HOLY SPIRIT?

Do you seek the favor of your leader or church?

Does everyone bow down to your leader because he or she is just SO holy and plugged in???

Does your church teach things that are OBVIOUSLY not in the bible?

Rules that are LEAVENED into the doctrine???

Hunger & Fullness???

Certain rules about Sabbaths, eating, holy days?

Excluding other churches from particpation?

Charging money for teachings, seminars and the like that YOU MUST get in order to be successful with GOD?

Does your group believe and affirm their DOCTRINE as superior to others?

If the answer is YES, to any of these, PLEASE get help...

These identify the SEDUCTION into SPIRITUAL FORNICATION and IDOLATRY!

My prayer is that ANYONE caught in this subtle seduction AWAY from GOD to be under ANYTHING else but Gods authority, is FREED, shown the truth, and given complete liberty, in the powerful & holy name of JESUS CHRIST, in which all his people stand....

 
At 1:35 PM, July 16, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't get why anyone should hate RF so much.

If they're happy being brainwashed, why not let them be? It's not like they think they're being brainwashed and nor do they feel they're being over-brudened. They are genually happy.

People may indeed see evil in them, but their basis for their acusations are no more valid than those of the RF.

Should people here accuse them of doing wrong by sueing another christian, the RF can simply reply 'we do nto believe that they are true christians,' which would put them in the right.

When it comes down to it, we have no more proof that they are equally christian than the RF does accusing them of being 'non-true christians'. Hence, our vies are no more valid than theres. Who can put a value on 'whose a true christian'. (and if people respond that this is the fault of the RF, you also have the same fault. For you are calling the church equally christian, and therefore holding them to a certain value or 'true-chrsitanity).

Both views are equally valid; those which speak against the RF, and the views of the RF.

For all we know, for those who bleive in God, RF may indeed be the saved people. Their views may be right, and all of us could be the ones blind. (and don't say that's impossible, for those of us who bleieve in God know that he could make that happen.)

But then again, they could also certainly be the blind ones.

Accusations should stop, simply because they hold no more truth than those the RF makes against other churches and the RF's teachings.

 
At 7:42 AM, July 17, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The WORD of GOD is pure, direct, diving asunder TRUTH from Error~

I believe a great deal of the biblical assertions of the remnant.

That which is biblically wrong EVIDENTLY I dismiss.

Far as RF suing Rafael Martinez, even the "appearance" of this rebellion ought to have been squashed.

Because the heart behind Corinthians is the Peace and Godly DEFENSE of those within HIS family...

Theres just not enough time to sue everyone who disagrees with you, or try in vain to WIN reputation.

This attempt of RF backfired tremendously and has brough great shame on their name....

It is enlightening to SHARE truth with one another, think about what we believe and WHY we believe it..

God alone will be the JUDGE of who the TRUE followers are, He knows who and what each preaches and stands for.

He knows where our allegiance is..

He knows those that are HIS, pouring out his beautiful spirit on those who obeyed HIS gospel of salvation...ACTS CHAP 2

As evidenced in 1st Corinthians 12~

Lets all continually walk in the light of HIS spirit, helping, encouraging and LOVING one another rather than wondering who of us is wrong...

Lots of love & Joy,
Lisa

 
At 8:47 AM, July 17, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But who are you to say that their actions where ungodly?

Who are you to say that God does not view them as more pure than you?

God has the ulimate judgement. Its not you place ot aruge the fact that they are wrong but rather for you to stay focused.

Who are you to say that those peole who they sued were 'true christians'? Just like who are the RF to sya thaty they are the true christians.

You said. Adn i quote:
"God alone will be the JUDGE of who the TRUE followers are, He knows who and what each preaches and stands for."

Are you not judgeing them too? Couldn't this 'shame' brought upon the RF possibly be God testing them?

And isn't it possible that you were indeed sifted out?

These are indeed possiblities. Your views aren't any more valid than those of the RF or the Pope, or the Jews or the Muslims.

You are not one to tell them that they are wrong. But nor are they for sayign that they are the only true chruch out there. Which i personally disagree that this is what their advertising.

What i'm trying to say is again, yoru points aren't ANY MORE VALID than theirs. You can't say that YOUR RIGHT. Because i'm sure there are tonse of people who would disagree with you. And you points don't have anymore 'proof' than theirs.

If one believes in you beliefs, than yes you are right, but if one believes in that of the RF, then the RF is right.

It comes down to what you believe in. And the 'proof' that YOUR belif is right is nor more valid than the RF's 'proof' that their belif is right.

 
At 7:36 PM, July 20, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you but there is a STANDARD
There is a RIGHT and a wrong.
Its found in the holy scriptures.
Its clear that in Corinthians we are TOLD not to sue or take a brother to law...Period.
Rev Martinez is a proclaimed disciple of Christ, beyone a shadow of a doubt, now I do not believe everything he teaches HOWEVER, I would NOT sue him for defamation because this was going to be EVIDENTLY seen as religious conflict which is tHE POINT~
We are called to work things out in the body of CHRIST~

Now what makes you think I hate them???

You need to re-read My posts...

This is NOT about a personal vendetta its about upholding GODS word.
Which you offer none of...
As far as being sifted out Ms Gwen
even offered to be my "spiritual mother" but only as I got "UNDER HER message"
which I culd not because her message is NOT the same as the LORDS...
My allegiance is to HIM, HIS word, HIS gospel...
I LEFT Remnant Fellowship, because
they were teaching blasphemy accoring to the scriptures.
They FORBID their followers from going to a wedding or funeral in any other church.
Jesus never TAUGHT that.
Jesus, Paul, Peter took every blessed opportunity to share with others the WORD of GOD, the gospel of the kingdom.
What basis do you have for your truth?
Your post simply are BLURRED, NO real truth, well TRUTH MATTERS, if you do not have TRUTH you have no basis for faith, true faith which saves...
Gods word alone is PURE, those who HOLD to his pure words can be sanctified through it...
And yes, Gods people are INDEED told to tell each other the truth, if they are PRACTICING unbiblcal
traditions someone CAN and should tell them where they are wrong, we are COMMANDED to do so, or their BLOOD is on our hands...
Do you NOT know the scriptures???
And they are NOT happy, many are terrified to speak up, they have told me!
The Nissens, The Hecks (Maxwells)
MANY MANY leadership families, wonderful people are leaving left & right, its even reported openly about an adulterous affair happening in leadership, AWFUL DIVISION, there are EVEN spies who have SECRET pages on facebook, who report so many problems, so many families HAVE left and been spiritually RAPED by this movement..YOu just dont KNOW,
you are most likely just a HAPPY BLINDED brainwashed member who CANT SEE, how evil it is to teach what they teach in regard to GODS family. I could go on, but I wont
if you are IN REMNANT, I warn you according to the spirit of GOD, in LOVE that you will be RESPONSIBLE
for your own SCRIPTURAL NEGLIGENCE.
If you dont mind miss Gwen regurgitated spiritual food being put into your mouth, you alone shall give account to Christ on that resurrection day.
Romans 14-15...
No, I think you need ought to read the entire book of Romans so you can understand what is happening here...
Be well and may God grant you understanding and appreciation of HIS WORD, HIS TRUTH and HIS purposes...
Great love & JOy,
Lisa


Its CLEAR from Gods word...They did not honor God in that and lost.

 
At 7:45 PM, July 20, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ooops, you asked me WHO am I who dare speak these thing?

My name is Lisa Marie, I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, I come in HIS NAME, with HIS word, with HIS authority to warn, refute and
bring light to this darkness.
And to offer a chance to change and follow HIM rather than fallible, error laden men...
Every disciple of Christ is called to do this, I encourage you to continue reading Gods word so you can know what is GOOD and RIGHT to stand for...
Great love,
Lisa
However I am not the only writer here obviously...

 
At 10:04 AM, February 24, 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

New rules, this post will be in two parts! HTML too large, I guess?

Its been a long time since last writing here.
I wanted to share my thoughts about the latest lawsuit.
what's right is right.
Rev Martinez's personal attacks are un biblical and reprehensible.
After reading his comments, I was indeed shocked and saddened.
Contending, debating, and even arguing over doctrinal matters is sometimes Very needed but personal attacks on ones character are NEVER justified.
I think Ms Gwen NOW has a justifiable case.
Oh why cant we as GODS people learn to LOVE, and forbear each other as Christ does with us?
Helping one another instead of biting & devouring each other?
I so desire Gods heart of reconciliation within HIS family.
I cant imagine "fighting" for anything less than that.
Unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace (eph)
Oh to BLESS His heart in these things.
My prayer is that one day Ms Gwen, Rev Martinez and all others at odds with one another, can see the awesome privilege we have as the elect of GOD, to forgive, show mercy, and talk things out in a spirit of love & meekness.
If we did that what JOY that would bring Our Father...
If we say we love HIM than we ought to LOVE one another.
We must recognize the GREATER GOOD, and that all those who are following Christ have been CHOSEN by him,jhn16
We don't get the right to choose who will be part of Gods great big family!
Our task is to love, encourage, help each other along the way so that GOD will be glorified forever,thru each of us!
Anyway, I wanted to write because I didn't support the first lawsuit because it seemed to LACK substance and just cause.
People argue over doctrine all the time.
Holding a different opinion than another is not unlawful, sharing your opinion is not unlawful.
However, Defamation and slander are WILLFUL "fabricated" LIES for the express purpose of destroying anothers reputation, may we as GODs beloved people NEVER, be found guilty of such a thing.
Bearing FALSE witness against your neighbor is serious.
If I have a matter against a "BROTHER" I take it to him or her, IF they wont hear me,I take witnesses with me, If they still wont hear then I take it to the CHURCH (all the called out) ARE the church.
Confronting, or sharing truth about spiritual matters is NOT unlawful.
But the INTENT is not to destroy but to RESTORE.
My REASONS for debating or confronting MUST be the WELL BEING of the flock or that person.
I am NOT to CONTEND with a brother, to PROVE him wrong, BUT to HELP him see TRUTH, so that HE or they can be bettered and centered in GODS love & blessing.
Our goal for our brother is reconciliation with GOD and one another, anything less is sinful, sensual, devilish...

 
At 10:05 AM, February 24, 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Continued....

I am deeply saddened by the terrible breech in the Body of Christ.
I LOVE Gods Truth, I Love Him and His people, with all that I am.
If I see doctrinal error, I don't want it swept under the rug!
Why?
Lies lead to enslavement, if you don't have TRUTH you your foundation will crumble.
And I want to see my FATHERS beloved people to be found blameless in that blessed day of Christs return.
Not guilty of bickering, belittling, slamming, hating, rejecting, biting, Gods Flock.
We are ONE body.
Lets Pray for peace, love & forgiveness within HIS family.
If someone sins reprove in love, with a view to their best, and GODs great love for them as you would YOUR child.
God doesn't want us "ATTACKING" one another but loving & restoring each other.
Eph 4:31
Let all bitterness, wrath,anger, clamor, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice
And be kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Col 3
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, long suffering;
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do to others.
And above all these things put on LOVE which is the PROOF of perfectness. (maturity)
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which you have been called into ONE BODY and be thankful.
My love to you all, I write this in the name & good pleasure of Our Lord Jesus Christ...

Love Always & Forever~Lisa

 
At 4:05 AM, September 10, 2010, Blogger mercire said...

I'm posting this anonymously since I am a recent walkout of Remnant Fellowship Church. I had lost 20-some pounds doing Weigh Down for a year before I decided to Replica Chanel watches officially join RF. Things turned scary as soon as I did. I didn't go through huge scary situations like some people blog about online, but probably because I only made it six months in the church. What I did go through was scary enough for me and I finally left.

Gwen had a great thing going with the Weigh Down Diet if she had just left it at that. Even after leaving the church, I am not abandoning the WD principles because I have eaten this way for a year and a half and it's probably mere habit now!

In the church they constantly stress being "Spirit led." I never felt Spirit led at all inside the church. Only on eggshells constantly to please the members and worrying my kids are not going to measure up. What took the cake was planning to host everyone in my home for the online service and being accused by a local member that I had not checked with her husband (authority) first. What???

 
At 9:06 PM, February 01, 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello friends,

Its been a long time....

I am writing today just to say how badly I feel inside over being part of the "schizms" in Gods beautiful EKKLESIA, His family~

I should have never posted anything I didnt fully understand...
And I just want reiterate as I have stated here many times, that the Remnant Fellowship Church is truly like no other I have ever seen....
The LOVE, ADORATION and IMPORTANCE of Gods LOVE & TRUTH above all is so EVIDENT~for those with eyes to see*
We were only there 3 months, we had just moved from NY, lots of upheaval and change, we had much pain in our lives, a very sick daughter who was in and out of the hospital often...
I wasnt ready to TRUST my husband or a church I hadnt yet PROVED to be faithful, and I was ashamed that my own family was NOT where we should have been....
I should be sure to tell you a few things about this church you will NOT see elsewhere,FOR INSTANCE~If any one of the precious brethren need anything, they GO to GOD to make sure its found.
If you MOVE, expect the happiest, kindest group of no less than 50 people to show up to help you get settled and a warm dinner provided to boot~
Did I mention HOW that when our daughter was ill, scores of cards & letters were sent to us, & that our daughter who was disabled & misunderstood in EVERY OTHER place, had NEVER ever been LOVED and cared for like that before outside of family?
Did I mention the CAR they GAVE our family to make sure I got to work at the police department each day?
Time would fail me to tell you of all the good they tried to help us with....
How about when they returned a check for $4000 to us that we had given them after our house sold because they wanted to make sure our NEEDS for medical insurance were met FIRST??
How did I return that LOVE?
By VENTING all the "little doctrinal" misgivings I had....
For this I GRIEVE & repent vehemently with tears.....
I find myself watching their LOVE & Videos from a distance wishing only that I was there with them.
The JOY I get as I hear of what and HOW they are celebrating GOD melts my heart~
My heart has changed, I WANT GODS heart of peace, love and reconcilition, WHEN I come to bring a gift to HIS altar may I be SURE that ALL my brother could hold against me, has been made right....
I ask for forgiveness of this BLOG, my heart was to ENGAGE them in conversation, so I could HEAL and reconcile MY misgivings~

All because I didnt take the TIME to GET cONNECTED and KNOW them....

This was FEAR....I ran COWARDLY away and chose rather to find fault with them , than with my own BROKEN self.....

May God help me make my repentance complete and may I spend the rest of my days APPRECIATING all the wonderful people HE has so graciously surrounded me with~
Anyway, I just wated to let you know that IF you are looking for a church that will RADCALLY change your heart & life for the better, go visit~
It is unforgettable and beautiful
to be a part of, may I one day have the joy of going thru those regal doors again~
I take full responsibilty for my sin, and ask that nothing I have said outside of the WILL OF GOD be counted worthy of your time~
When you find the pearl of great price dont break it apart by chiseling out imagined defects~
It just might be shadows...
With great love for all,

Lisa marie

 
At 2:28 PM, March 03, 2013, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have recently discovered Weighdown ministry and so grateful to God for leading me. I have never encountered a more joyfully sold out group of believers for God than these of RF and their fruit is evident.
Above was a disturbing ex employee who admittedly used Gwens generosity and enjoyed lavish vacations until she was called out. Thank God she was fired!
Any doubters are welcome to go their own way no one is forcing anyone to believe the truth and the Scripture which Gwen does boldly proclaim.
May Peace find its way into the heart of the readers here.

 
At 8:15 AM, June 28, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I admit feeling a certain nostalgia for my old Weigh Down group from the mid-1990's. About ten of us stayed after the meetings and shared our struggles and successes, prayed together and sometimes cried together. This was long before the hoopla about Remnant Fellowship surfaced; I think at that time Gwen was still a member of the Church of Christ. I remember how the weight just fell off me and how happy I was to take all of my ugly plus-size clothing to Goodwill. There were still painful moments with wanting to eat when the body wasn't calling for food and I hope I was as supportive to them as they were to me. By the time Gwen fell from her pedestal, Weigh Down was no longer offered at my church due to falling enrollment. The pastor and class leader both felt it had run its course. I was shocked when I read about the Remnant Fellowship, Gwen denying the Trinity, cults, etc. RF seems to be going strong all these years later. I think maybe the members got sucked into it because they weren't well-grounded in Scripture.

 
At 4:30 PM, November 28, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is obviously an old blog post, and old comments... and I hesitate to write anything here. I am a lone family member that did not join RF back in the late 90's. I just wanted to say that it is a really hard situation and has challenged my faith to the core. I love my family more than anything and I have maintained a "surface" relationship with them over the past 15 years in order to have ANY relationship with them. I am in no way defending RF, and I have my own opinions about some of the things that go on there, but as for my family...I truly believe they want to serve God and love God. I believe that my dad has a heart for the hurting in the community, but his ministry options are limited to where RF says he can go and who he can share with. I breaks my heart.
Also, there are some things that they just don't realize they are doing. The hurt they are causing and the selfishness they exhibit. I am not going to name specific instances for fear of being found out, but my husband says I am a doorstep and they walk all over me. For those who come across this, please pray for them, & please pray for me on how to continue handling this situation.
Thank you.

 

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