Men Vs. Women: All The Men Are WRONG!!!
I thought we were alone in my house and that the culture war we've been waging has been solely between me and Hubster. But the comments on this post over at Brittney's would seem to prove me wrong.
Our argument is one that everyone seems to be having. It appears to be split nearly down the middle, with men on one side and women on the other. And allow me to say once and for all that all the men are WRONG.
Yes, I realise that Jim put himself out there, only to be rejected by an insecure Pam. I also realise that That B!tch Karen represents a bird in the hand to a heartsick and lonely Jim. I realise that Jim is trying to move past his love for Pam and use TB!K as a bandaid for his broken heart.
But honestly, guys. Pam and Jim belong together. Pam is nervous about her future. She spent years being emotionally stifled by that complete dunderhead Roy. The only times when she has any self-confidence at all are when she interacts with Jim. Don't believe me? Rewatch the episode where Jan offers Pam a shot at a Graphic Design internship. Any woman who hadn't been beaten down by a three-year engagement to a lunkhead would take that job. But the woman who allowed her boyfriend to systematically suck away her self-worth has no ability to believe in her own strength.
Jim blindsided her and then left town. He never called or kept any contact with her, which just reinforced her feelings of low self-esteem. She DID take what little bit of pride his confession of love engendered to break off her engagement to Roy. But now she's left wanting what she can't have. The whole comedy of errors is as much Jim's fault as it is Pam's. And they belong together.
posted by Kat Coble @ 11:40 AM
17 comments
17 Comments:
What is with this 'Office' you kids keep going on about? Is it any good?
I need to watch more TV.
It's one of the best things on right now. Of course I'm prejudiced, seeing as how many of the producers were also involved with Arrested Development.
Team Karen!
(Sorry, total girl-crush on Rashida Jones requires me to be Team Karen)
No, Ms. C, I have to respectfully disagree with you and agree with the fellers over there. When Pam told Jim no, he moved on. And I like Karen; she's very droll. (Doesn't RJ have her daddy's smile? What a killah! I would smooch her myself.)
That doesn't mean J&P won't eventually get together, because, yes, they are Meant To Be™. I anticipate Karen getting head-hunted by some other company, possibly Staples/Josh (ha), because she's so good, plus she's not the type to put up with Michael's insanity for very long. Without putting a fork in his eye.
And then Jim and Pam=Tru ? 4EVA. The End.
With all due respect, what are you smoking, dearest?
Allow me to begin by saying that I fully acknowledge the inevitability of a Jim/Pam reunion. That nice girl Karen is merely pig anus, added as filler to the hot dog that is this season of The Office. That being said...
Pam. Had. Her. Chance.
All fellow libertarians repeat after me: Jim cannot be held responsible for Pam's decision to stay in a toxic relationship with Roy. Jim cannot be held responsible for Pam's rejection of his profession of love - twice offered. Jim cannot be responsible for Pam's self esteem issues. That's all on her.
Jim should not be faulted for embracing the only option available to him: moving on with his life in the face of rejection by Pam. He didn't choose that option, so he shouldn't be criticized for making the best of it.
Neither should he be faulted for not spending the rest of his life looking over his shoulder. Had he continued to call and in any way pursue the woman who rejected him in no uncertain terms, it wouldn't have made him a romantic - it would have made him a stalker. It also would have been patently masochistic, as Pam made it crystal clear that a romantic relationship was off the table. (And don't even get me started on that "we'll always be close friends" BS from last week...)
Jim is fully justified in taking up with that nice girl Karen, who I'm starting to think is probably a better catch in the long run anyway. Pam gave up any say in the matter, and all the non-buyer's remorse in the world won't change that.
Rent the British version. It's sooo much better than the American version.
I agree with Hubby, with a caveat. I do think Jim and Pam belong together, but it's up to Pam now to begin bridging that gap. Jim put himself out there, lost, and moved on. Pam needs to respond with the same if there's a chance for them as a couple.
As for Karen, she's just in the wrong spot at the wrong time. She's in the way by default, not by design or by malice.
Kat, I do love TB!K, though. That's funny!
Lesley, girl you break my heart. Although if you would take Rashida Jones, she'd at least be out of the mix.
Gf, how dare you side with hubster?!? ;-p
I think you're probably right about the way TBKaren will play out.
Hubster, you're wrong.
First off, you don't get to play the Libertarian card in this discussion because it isn't germaine. When people are in a relationship they take an interest in the well-being of their partner. When people are angling to get into a romantic relationship they'd be well-advised to do the same. Jim KNEW before his confession of lurv that Roy had done a number on Pam. (Watch his reaction to Pam's "worst first date" story about the hockey game.)
As for him taking up with Karen? I think he's kind of using her. He KNOWS she's into him, and he's still hurting over Pam so he's taking advantage of her willingness. That's stinketh.
jj--
I actually refused to watch AmericanOffice for the first mini-season because I was afraid they'd kill it they way they killed AmericanCoupling. I love BBCOffice. I especially loved Mackenzie Crook's Gareth. (British Dwight?)
Rob--
Man, I guess everyone is gonna shoot me down today. But I do think Pam will bridge that gap. And I think she'll be a stronger partner for Jim once that happens.
Hubby is right. You are wrong.
Gareth was in the Territorial Army you know.
ok...I totally thought you were talking about "real" people....damn. lol
Yes, dear, "When people are in a relationship they take an interest in the well-being of their partner." Thus, when Jim went waaaaaay out on a limb and professed his love to Pam, only to have her reject him point blank, it was entirely reasonable for him to conclude that they weren't in a relationship, weren't gonna be in a relationship, and that it was time for him to move on.
And yes, Jim was painfully well aware that Roy had done a number on Pam. All the more to the issue that you raised regarding self esteem. What do you think it did to Jim's self esteem to have Pam reject him in favor of staying with that dolt? She was in a bad situation. Jim gave her an easy out and a direct path to an infinitely preferable relationship. She didn't take it. What message was Jim supposed to take from that?
Again, I don't think for a second that Pam and Jim won't eventually end up together. However romantic that may be, I maintain that it's not very realistic. I liken Jim and Pam to high school sweethearts - two people who form a bond largely out of shared experieces and lack of anything better. Those relationships can be very intense, but tend not to be very mature or durable. The relationship between Jim and that nice girl Karen feels a whole lot more like an adult connection between two people who are mature and well adjusted. They can be together not because they're needy or see one another as an escape from a bad situation, but because being together would further enhance an already well-adjusted life.
And Jim's not using that nice girl Karen. He's being understandably slow in putting himself back out there and is finally turning the corner into being able to see himself with someone else. If anything, he's taking things slowly in order to make sure that his motivations are right. He doesn't want to disrespect her by treating her like a rebound girl. In short, he's taking an interest in the well-being of his new potential partner.
The reason this road block to Pam and Jim works is that it doesn't feel like a forced road block, say along the lines of Ross and Rachel on Friends. The Office has actually made us sort of like Karen and see some chemistry between she and Jim...to see why Jim could and does like her. Unlike Friends with Paolo, the "we were on a break" thing and any other reason they came up with to keep Ross and Rachel apart.
I just finished British Office and I have to say...I like American Office better. I know, I'm 0-2 with most people now, but the other characters are more developed in the Am version and I like that. I mean, who hasn't worked with a Stanley or an Angela? Maybe it's not funny to those of you who still do work with an Angela.
I would pay money to work with a Stanley.
Wait a minute. I do. He's hilarious. Just not quite as morose.
I have a co-irker who is a cross between an Angela and a Michael. Thank the blessed Lord that she is not our boss.
Because I would be in the penitentiary.
Sorry, Kath. I have to agree with your hubs here, too. Yes, Jim and Pam should be together, and they probably will be eventually. But Pam chickened out again and again and Jim had to move on. If she would even get some guts now and admit how she feels, he might be able to dump Karen and come back to her, but she's just too meek. You would never be that mousy - no matter how badly your dork ex-fiancee had screwed up your self-esteem!
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