27 February, 2007

J.L. Kirk & Associates: My Story

Feel free to skip to the end for the juicy stuff...


JL Kirk & Associates found my husband's resume online. They contacted him a couple of weeks ago and offered their services as an 'Executive Placement Firm'. As I'm wont to do, I of course Googled them as much as possible and found very little in the way of solid information. So I've decided to write up our experiences with them for anyone else who is interested in finding out more about this particular operation.

Anyone who has been searching for a job for any length of time is well aware of the various vulnerabilities that are part of the process. There's the self-doubt, frustration and impatience, coupled with no small amount of worry. So when a job searcher gets an email that says "maybe we can help!" the relief is almost immediate.

My husband filled out an application and questionnaire, and returned it directly to the company. He then received an appointment with a counselor the following week. During that appointment the representative of JL Kirk & Associates interviewed him just as one would for a position. The afternoon after the interview he received an email that congratulated him on making it through the first step of the process. They wanted to schedule a second interview which required my presence as a Support Person/Spouse/Significant Other. When he scheduled the interview he questioned them directly about their fees and payment arrangements. He was told that if we received approval after the second interview the money would be discussed at that time.

So today was the second interview, and we drove to Maryland Farms for our 2:00 appointment. We sat in a waiting room next to a fake fireplace and a lone man in a suit. At 2:11 a matronly woman came out and announced to the other man--in front of us--that she would not be able to meet with him because he wasn't able to bring his Support Person. They had a lengthy conversation in front of us about this failed meeting and his disappointment. He asked to speak with her behind closed doors (as would I) and then five minutes later that conversation ended with him leaving dejectedly. She then turned to us (it is now 2:17pm) and greeted us warmly.

We were led into an office that appeared to have been the result of a decorating war between a loan officer and an eccentric grandmother. The prototypical office furniture clashed with a giant print of Raffael's Cherubs a reproduction oriental rug and a handmade mosaic table with a tilted top. The Husband and I were seated in two chairs across from the interviewer, who sat on a sofa next to a pile of throw pillows.

Here's where the fun starts. We heard all about how hard it is to find a job, how most jobs aren't posted online and are only found through networking. We heard about how the really good jobs are available only to those 'in the know' and can only be obtained through some wizardy combining Masonic handshakes, good dentistry and whatever pixie dust this particular company stores in the backroom. This interview seemed very carefully designed to exploit every potential vulnerability that any jobseeker feels. After about 10 minutes of conversation subtly designed to push every button we may have, the interviewer handed us a booklet that was said to be a tailored write-up of my husband's profile as a job-seeker. The interviewer left us alone in the room to digest the booklet on our own terms.

The booklet consisted of three pages of reiteration of the interview's strong-arm tactics, followed by a regurgitation of information from my husband's resume, all summarised with a couple of pages essentially saying "the job market is tough but we think you're really great and so we'll be here to help you get a job!" We skimmed the booklet and reviewed our game plan, then signaled the interviewer by opening the door.

Our game plan was to ask direct questions about the company's operation and placement record. In short, 'what exactly do you do and how well do you do it?' We had test answers in mind. In short, if we ask a direct question and get a vague answer such as "every case is different so numbers are hard to apply here" that tells us a great deal about the company's services.

Sure enough, our first question about placement rate was answered with an "every case is different, etc." style answer. Ultimately she gave us the figure of "90 to 92% placement rate" and then proceeded to tell us a long tale about a 'failed' client who showed up 37 minutes late to an interview with a CEO from an out-of-state firm. We all agreed that was indeed very unprofessional of said client and what a shame and how good to not work with him. (I of course was thinking about how we were on time for that interview which she failed to start until 17 minutes after the promised appointment time.)

She then gave us the very good news that they were prepared to accept us as clients. Then the fun began. We were told that Headhunters and Employment Agencies took fees only when a job had been secured for the job seeker, and they took their fees (generally 30-40%) from the hiring firm. But that means the job seeker gets a lower starting salary because all of their good money is going to the headhunter/employment agency. Thankfully, though, JL Kirk & Associates will be able to get my husband a job making a far larger starting salary. All we need to do is put $4,420 on a credit card today. Once we do that the entire weight of the firm of JL Kirk & Associates will begin the task of navigating treacherous shark-infested landmines of the job search on behalf of my husband. And just trust them, because they find jobs for 90% of the people who pay them to.

So that's how it works. And that's pretty much how we expected that it would work. But both the spouse and I believe that it's irrepsonsible to not pursue any lead during this time so we thought we'd go through the process. Especially since they kept so much of it in the dark from the outset.

JUICY STUFF BEGINS HERE
But I'm very angry about it. If you've made it this far, I suppose maybe you could tell that I've been supressing most of my irritation. However, irritation makes for good blog reading, and so here it is.

I get really ticked off at people trying to use fear to motivate others. I don't care if you are a fire-and-brimstone preacher, an insurance salesman, a used-car salesman or a cat burglar. Finding someone else's fear and vulnerability and using that vulnerability to somehow enrich yourself is a cheap and underhanded tactic. It's wrong and it's cruel. And I think that's exactly what this placement firm did to us today. There were times when I felt like I was sitting across from a spider. We were meant to feel at home enough to let down our guard so that the woman could then ply us gently with tales of terror. All of it was designed to make us hand over nearly $5,000 without question and without possibility of a refund.

The husband and I are not always idiots. We both expect to pay for services rendered from any provider. But we generally like to be treated as responsible adults. We had legitimate questions about the fee structure and we raised those at several points in the process. For them to not even discuss that fee structure until they had battered us emotionally for half an hour is what I would consider to be unethical. I'm sure there are other employment agencies and headhunters out there. We'll continue to look for them.

In the meantime, I would discourage anyone who stumbles across this entry from even going through the JL Kirk & Associates "interview process".

UPDATE

I should also mention that this company was formerly Bernard Haldane before it was purchased by Mr. Kirk Leipzig. One of the accusations against Bernard Haldane was that they would make an examination of the potential client's assets and charge accordingly. I find it interesting to note just how close our "fee" was to the tax refund we recently received. Hmmm. Makes you wonder, no?

207 Comments:

At 1:38 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger Lynnster said...

Gosh. The part about HAVING to bring your spouse/support person with you made me edgy first, then when I got to the "All we need to do is put $4,420 on a credit card today" part my heart just sank.

I agree with you two's take that it would be irresponsible not to pursue all options and I know things are so tough right now. I am really hating you both had to go through this experience though, the tale really gives me the creeps, I hope things turn out okay VERY soon.

Continuing to send good karma your way and keep y'all in prayers.

 
At 6:32 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger Slartibartfast said...

Damn.

This post makes me so angry, I swear I could resort to violence.

But then, I realise that this post will show up on a lot of Google searches. Much better than violence.

However, I still want to call Turko.

 
At 6:49 AM, February 28, 2007, Anonymous Sarcastro said...

Morons.

If only there was someone to warn you of such scams...
http://sarcastro.squarespace.com/journal/2006/7/26/the-big-store.html

 
At 6:50 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger newscoma said...

I'm with Slartibartfast on this.
These "employment" are destroying northwest Tennessee.
It makes me so damned angry I can't think.

 
At 7:58 AM, February 28, 2007, Anonymous nm said...

You actually had a better experience than I was afraid of when I read the "you must bring your spouse" part. I was afraid you'd get home to find that thieves had cleared out your house.

 
At 8:20 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger Kat Coble said...

Lynnster, thanks. I've really no doubt that things will turn out okay in the long run, and I thought this was pretty educational. Thanks for the prayers. We continue to need them.

Slarti--

With Google, sites that are updated more frequently usually appear very high in the search rankings, even if they're updated on a different topic. Because of that, this blog tends to have a very high placement in Google. Generally when I write an entry it comes in the top 5 for any search on the subject after a week or so. That's EXACTLY the one reason I wrote this entry. I'm pretty confident that anyone searching for either J.L. Kirk or JL Kirk will get this story on the TOP of their search pile.

Which is why I wish Sarcastro had used the name of the company (it's the same one, judging by the fake fireplace) in HIS blog entry. Dude, that would really have helped, because I did read it back in the day, but it didn't show up on my googling.

nc--
I spent most of last evening at alternating levels of angry. I decided that my best recourse was to first do this write-up for the Web and then contact the State's Attorney General. Since we didn't actually spend any money we may not be a valid complainant according to the AG's office, but I think we have enough to warrant a registered complaint based on deceptive business practices, misrepresentation and fraud. I find the fact that the amount we were asked to pay so neatly coincides with our tax refund (which is a matter of public record) very suspicious.

nm,
I hadn't actually thought about that one. Given the way these crooks operated it wouldn't have surprised me, though. Hubs thinks I'm a bit nuts but I asked the interviewer flat-out if the turn down of the other guy in the lobby was staged for our benefit. It seemed like the kind of thing con artists like these would do.

In doing more reading about these clowns I found a couple places where it is alleged that the "JL" in JL Kirk actually stands for "Jesus is Lord". That really burns my butter.

 
At 8:52 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger Kerry Woo said...

I'm curious to know if bringing a spouse/support person was designed to have the second person apply "pressure" framed in a question such as "You do want your husband to succeed right?"

In this case, having your support and additional discernment only made things better - and it's always good to have a extra person to sniff out a con... hang in there!

The best is just around the corner; stay strong; honorable people act honorably and stand firm for what is honorable. I'm praying for a great outcome!

 
At 8:56 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger Ivy, the Great and Powerful said...

I suspect the having the support person there is to make it harder for the person to sue when they don't find them a job.

I'm sorry you had such a crappy experience, those people are bastards.

 
At 8:58 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger Kat Coble said...

Kerry & Ivy, you're both right.

There were questions directed at me designed to help me as the insecure wife put more economic pressure on The Husband. Didn't work. I'm proud of the husband and not all that frightened. I WAS mad that they tried to pull that tactic, though. Like he's not under enough stress already.

And there's also the obvious legality of our not having an out with the credit card company to dispute the charges.

 
At 9:33 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger Malia said...

The "support person" scenario is a sleazy recruiting tactic. MLM's like Amway do it all the time. If the person they are recruiting is married/engaged/in a long-term relationship, they try to get the recruit to sign their significant other up as well and be "partners". Or they try the scare tactics by making sure the significant other knows just how much potential the recruit has and if they don't support them then they are destined to fail. We had a disturbing experience with that at the beginning of our marriage. I can't really give details because the recruiters in question are also family members and I don't want to embarrass them on the Internet!

I'm so glad you went through the interview and sniffed them out and then posted about it. Undoubtedly it will help countless others out there who are being "recruited" by them!

 
At 9:35 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger ceeelcee said...

If they thought bringing the "support person" along would make you all easier to intimidate, methinks they miscalculated.

Fuggem.

 
At 9:42 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger Kat Coble said...

I really don't think they reckoned on the dread coupling of an organisational analyst and a poker-playing skeptic.

 
At 9:54 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger Slartibartfast said...

I've got people

 
At 10:33 AM, February 28, 2007, Anonymous Lesley said...

In doing more reading about these clowns I found a couple places where it is alleged that the "JL" in JL Kirk actually stands for "Jesus is Lord". That really burns my butter.

My thought was that he inverted his name/initials so it sounded less ethnic (for lack of a better term). Either way, it's sleazy. I hate people who use Jesus as a marketing tool.

 
At 12:55 PM, February 28, 2007, Blogger Exador said...

Reputable headhunting firms are paid by the employer. As you have discovered, anybody that wants money from the employee is scamming you.

 
At 4:26 PM, February 28, 2007, Anonymous Sarcastro said...

Perhaps "morons" was too harsh.

I linked to them, rather than naming them, because they didn't actually put the arm on me for money. After the "bring your Special Other" directive, I figured it was a scam and decided not to go back for the part where they try to separate me from my money.

Plus, Paramount has their legal team enforcing a ruling that says I can't use the nam "Kirk" without their written consent.

 
At 4:56 PM, February 28, 2007, Anonymous sistasmiff said...

And this is legal?

 
At 4:57 PM, February 28, 2007, Blogger Kat Coble said...

Barely.

Vaguely.

Maybe not.

Hence my decision to take it to the Attorney General's office.

 
At 6:23 PM, February 28, 2007, Anonymous Sarcastro said...

It is legal. The same way Bill Heard sells cars is legal. Ethical is another matter.

JL Kirk sends you on interviews you could have set up yourself by reading the want ads. The tricky part is they get you to buy into their bullshit about their exclusive access to "high level decision makers".

They are selling perceived value. Some marks are smart enough to see through the scam. Judging by their Maryland Farms address, there are plenty more who aren't.

 
At 10:47 PM, February 28, 2007, Anonymous elizabeth said...

so, I'm curious as to what they do to shake down a single person..... or do they not bother with single people?

 
At 11:19 AM, March 01, 2007, Blogger Michael said...

So let me ask a question...as a single person who isn't in a significant relationship, would they work with me? Or would my lack in that area keep me from being a client?

I just wonder....

If the hubby wants to network and find those elusive jobs, he might be better served to try the Career Transition Support Group over at Brentwood United Methodist. IT's a free service/ministry to anyone looking for a job. It meets on Monday evenings and has a useful network of contacts who are open and amenable to networking and helping one find those unadvertised jobs. It's a great resource and one I used in my job search.

 
At 12:07 PM, March 01, 2007, Anonymous Sarcastro said...

No, if you have an Important Other, they want them there to torpedo your possible objections regarding a huge financial decision. Like handing over all your cash to them in exchange for a job.

Closing this kind of deal requires the closer to eliminate the "Gee, I better talk this over with my wife, as this is a major financial decision and all" excuse.

 
At 12:35 PM, March 01, 2007, Blogger Kat Coble said...

You also can't underestimate the power of shaming one Support Person in front of the other.

They had a really inelegant implimentation of it, but it was still there.

Questions like "Katherine, would you finally have peace of mind if [husband] had a real job with a stable company?" were just too rich for words. They not only slammed my husband's [very real] previous jobs but also implied that he was crap at taking care of me.

I can see a lot of men ponying up $5K like some type of way to barter back their manhood.

 
At 10:48 PM, March 01, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oddly enough I received a brash phone call from an Executive Assistant calling for the local VP of J.L. Kirk & Associates demanding I set up an interview. I asked "this is in reference to....." her reply," he(the VP) has your address and pharmaceutical experience circled and told me to call you".
Now I know the rest of the story...
Thanks. T in OKC.

 
At 12:17 PM, March 04, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i am trying to figure out what has "steamed" you so much. Their business line is career counseling...you were put through their process and you didnt sign up..so why the consistent badgering....i dont see anything wrong of what they are doing...i think you have way too much time on your hands...this is what is wrong with the morality of America...maybe you can sue them? maybe you can ruin their image? I guess this would make you sleep better at night eh?

 
At 11:12 PM, March 04, 2007, Anonymous tom said...

kath,

I'm so happy that you recounted this experience. More than once I've been conned into amway pitches and the like. This sounds like the worst kind of people. I would also object to being summoned as someone's significant other. Like many other people said, it seems illegal since marital status isn't allowed to be considered when hiring someone.

Another item I thought about was the other end. If (and that is a BIG If) these clowns do have a 90-92 percent success rate, how are they getting these people placed? There must be some shady activity going on at the other end. Two possible scenarios, they could be bribing HR reps at other companies to hire their candidates, or they could be using religious guilt to get their "friends" to hire their candidates.

It's just bad news all around. I hope it all works out and you can get them to close up shop or retool their business practices, or get the AG to do it for them.

 
At 5:17 PM, March 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks so much for sharing! I just called and cancelled my so called interview with J.L. Kirk! It was so vauge I thought they were a "normal" paid-by-the-employer recruiter.

 
At 1:30 PM, March 16, 2007, Blogger Thankful said...

Thank you; thank you! I have an appt. with them on Monday. While searching for something about them on the web, I found your blog. You better believe that within 5 minutes, that appt. will be canceled! Thank you for preventing me from wasting my time and aggravation!! ZZ

 
At 1:31 PM, March 16, 2007, Blogger Thankful said...

Thank you; thank you! I have an appt. with them on Monday. While searching for something about them on the web, I found your blog. You better believe that within 5 minutes, that appt. will be canceled! Thank you for preventing me from wasting my time and aggravation!! ZZ

 
At 1:32 PM, March 16, 2007, Blogger Thankful said...

Thank you; thank you! I have an appt. with them on Monday. While searching for something about them on the web, I found your blog. You better believe that within 5 minutes, that appt. will be canceled! Thank you for preventing me from wasting my time and aggravation!! ZZ

 
At 1:11 AM, March 18, 2007, Blogger soyarma said...

I've tried to use headhunter companies to hire my employees, but every one of them has been a disappointment. Friends and family who have tried to use them in job searches have also been disappointed. Most of these places want to charge the employer 30% of the first year’s wage for placement. My personal opinion is that I wouldn’t want to work for a company that would pay that, as to them the employee is just a cog.

I can’t speak for all employers, but I can’t imagine a well run, financially responsible company paying that much money to get a new hire, unless they are very large, and then I would imagine that most would have their own hiring department – I can really only speak regarding small and mid-size companies.

When our company looks for new employees we use only two places, Craigslist and monster.com. Again, this is my personal opinion, but any company worth working for will be listed in one of those two places. If a job at a certain company is all inside networking and who you know, then it A, doesn’t seem like a really honest place to work, or B it’s a high level position that some headhunter company won’t be able to get you into anyway.

 
At 5:19 PM, March 19, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for the information. I did go on the initial interview today with J. L. Kirk and felt a bit suspicious when I was asked to return with my spouse. I will not go back.
A million thanks for the heads-up. I certainly would not have given them that amount of money but this blog has saved me time and gas back to to Brentwood.

 
At 12:18 AM, April 05, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

...so sad...nine years ago I was taken for $3,200 by the Bernard Haldane group(almost exactly my tax return for the year...they get this by asking for your current salary or gross income for the year). Their entire program boiled down to a "beautiful" resume, networking groups (made up of folks just like yourself without a job), and defining for reinserting yourself back into the job market.

...so I get the JL Kirk email last week and find myself driving to Maryland Farms. I sit down and the questions begin to ring with my experiences from the Haldane group. I stopped the interviewer in mid sentence to ask if I would pay or the employer who hires would pay...it was as if I had not asked the question...she blanked and said that we would cover that subject in the coming interviews if I were invited back to "participate".

Right... so I now know the gig is up...and go into a little two minute tirade about how the Bernard Haldane group had taken my money, crapped together a resume, and did nothing to help me find a job...in fact found a job on my own and had asked for a partial repayment...only to be laughed at by the Haldane crew.

If JL is Haldane...their reputation grows beneath their feet. She said,"Oh, some groups will do anything to help themselves while supposedly helping you"...LOL!

I have been invited back for meeting #2...I want to bring them so close to them thinking they are closing the deal and slap them with some junk about how immoral their business really is and that I'm considering bringing suit against the renamed JL for damages done under the Haldane name...I'll go on and on about how many people I know and how I will spread the word via mouth, blog, or sandwich board to let the world know of the coiled up injustice that lays in wait just inside the offices of J.L. Kirk.

Any creative ideas on how to shake the tree while in my second meeting are appreciated.

-Once taken, twice wise.

 
At 9:34 AM, April 07, 2007, Anonymous Eccentric Matronly Grandmother said...

In response to those who choose to hide behind pseudo names, anonymous postings, and Mrs. Katherine Coble herself, I will respond to the blog herein; I am the matronly, eccentric grandmother, with the tackily decorated office within J.L. Kirk Associates.

There is a cultural phenomenon regarding information regurgitated on the internet. It seems there is a segment of our techno-access population who believe; if the written word resides on the internet, regardless of platform or source, it MUST be true! This is a sad testament to our information starved population, who use the internet as their link to the outside world. This platform/blog typifies the “mob” mentality, so for that reason, I will address and defend the fabrications written herein.

For those who are unaware, the Bernard Haldane organization no longer exists in Tennessee or to my knowledge anywhere in the United States. This is a fact. Mr. Kirk purchased the remaining assets of the BH organization here in Brentwood, changed the philosophy, company mission, replaced every BH employee, and put his name of the door! Does this sound like a person who is hiding? As part of the purchase, he inherited the liabilities as well; unhappy clients who were hurt by former unethical practices he had no part in delivering. The price to appease those clients and put his business on the “moral” road to recovery was in excess of $154,000. Does this sound like a scammer? He was not ordered by any court or official, he did it to end the reign of BH and all the negativity.

I will now address. Katherine Coble’s accusations. It is important to know that when I met Mrs. Coble and her husband, neither was gainfully employed. Mr. Coble placed his resume on a free internet job site looking for employment. As a result of his resume posting, by his own admission Mr. Coble has received dozens of emails from the insurance industry, work at home, get rich quick, etc. (Had Mr. Coble accepted a position selling insurance for example, he would have had to pay for his own education, paid for his license, and waited for any possible compensation if/when he sold a policy.) Apparently these unsolicited offers are less offensive than a genuine offer of help – which I will address in detail further in this post.

During the initial interview with my colleague, it was mentioned that Mr. Coble is an avid cyclist and a member of a fledgling not for profit group. It is his hope to make this his career in approximately 2 years. With no motive other than to be helpful, my colleague put Mr. Coble in touch with a cycle/marketing person, name, telephone number and personal introduction. Further, Mrs. Coble was given a publishing contact as she is apparently an aspiring writer. In both cases, with no motive whatsoever, my colleague offered the contacts and use of her name – to the Coble’s, two perfect strangers! What was the result of the contacts? I have no idea (and as a simple gesture is irrelevant); however, it is not part of our job description to provide ANYTHING to individuals during a screening interview. I read nowhere in this blog where your hostess thanked my colleague for her kindness. None was expected, so it makes my colleague the bigger person.

Our business model provides that we are able to grant services to approximately 225-250 clients per year. A scam would know no limits as to the number of clients per year - as the goal would be to reap as many fees as possible. Despite the baseless accusations waged by Mrs. Coble, our company provides a service that no other company in Nashville provides! Our career management staff, coupled with marketing and networking staff FIND JOBS FOR OUR CLIENTS! FACT!!!! We routinely represent individuals who bring personal/professional challenges to their career search; history of job hopping, lack of education, extraneous education, poorly crafted resume, poor interviewing skills, lack of professional resources, inability to identify their skill sets, lack of focus and/or direction, to name a few. Our staff spends countless hours working with each individual client to make them more marketable. Each client and ALL their issues are tackled, one at a time. It’s laughable that anyone of medium intelligence would put ANY stock in the juvenile facetious rant (the really good jobs are available only to those 'in the know' and can only be obtained through some wizardy combining Masonic handshakes, good dentistry and whatever pixie dust this particular company stores in the backroom) And by the way, in Mrs. Cobles’ case, we would recommend (free of charge) to further her writing “career” she learn to spell “wizardry” and polish her grammar and punctuation skills. I make no apology for my skill (or lack of) as I never intend to make a living as a writer.

Do we charge a fee for what we do? Yes. There is only one method to conduct a career search that is free of COST; the internet, newspaper, church or friends/contacts to SEARCH ON YOUR OWN. All career development resources (beyond those mentioned) require an investment by the job seeker. It is a misnomer that there are companies who do not charge fees (commissions) paid by the employee. I will briefly explain.

Head hunters, recruiters, and employment agencies are commissioned sales organizations. Their commission is generally 20-40% of first year gross income. Commonly, the employer will write the check. However, ONLY at the very highest levels of employment (CEO, President, COO, CFO, etc.) does the company actually PAY for the service. For those below this level, the employee typically pays for the placement in a reduction of salary. Sadly, this reduced salary is compounded annually and the cost of placement assistance becomes astronomical beyond the initial commission. Apparently Mrs. Coble and her band of blind followers find no fault with the aforementioned company types WHO GET PAID.

Agencies of this type do not represent individuals; they represent companies who will pay their commissions. As with any sales organization, the more (resume's) they have to present to a company, the greater the likelihood of placement success. While this arrangement is extremely profitable for the "agency," it leaves individual job seekers out of the equation when time (finding a job) is of the essence. A successful agency attracts new applicants daily, which become additional competition for the few job openings typically represented.

As one writer stated, his company only uses Monster.com & Craig’s List when searching or advertising for viable applicants. If this is a successful recruitment venue for his company, great. However, what about the ten’s of thousands of positions that are never advertised OR are advertised on company boards or otherwise, that the job seeker knows nothing about? If one doesn’t know a particular company exists, it’s impossible to access potential opportunities. To gain entrée to companies, identify potential opportunities, develop an ongoing relationship, etc., it takes time, personnel & money. Networking and marketing are expensive, and an on going pursuit that may not be fruitful for months or years. None the less, it is the business of the marketing company (JLK-A) to implement daily, weekly, monthly & annual pursuits on behalf of our clients today and for the future. In effect, it was yesterday’s work that provides the opportunities for our clients today!


Mrs. Coble wrote ad nausea, about the careful design of strong arm tactics by an eccentric grandmother, emasculation of her husband, exploitation & vulnerability. Think about this. Why, did the Coble’s come to JLK-A in the first place? To spend so much time and effort devising an angry, adversarial “game plan” prior to arrival was guaranteed to result in nothing positive or productive. Did I state the facts to Mr. & Mrs. Coble? Yes. When I explained the challenges in any career search, I also told Mr. Coble what I believed his challenges and opportunities to be. I concede, without benefit of a crystal ball, I could not speak to specific positions or companies, as it had yet to be determined exactly WHAT Mr. Coble wants to do. As an organization we are to be faulted for his lack of specific focus? Mr. Coble was unemployed because he quit his former position…in excess of 6 weeks before he was interviewed by JLK-A. The circumstances of this unemployment would indicate that direction is an issue. Also, his former salary was $20,000 less than his career high, so it would indicate as a job seeker Mr. Coble has had difficulty with sustained upward mobility. Could we help him, yes – but the Coble’s were so steadfast in their paranoia that this will never happen. Finally, when asked what he would like to do, Mr. Coble responded, “I would like JLK-A to assist me with those aspects of identifying and accessing career opportunities that I’m unable to accomplish myself. Specifically, to help identify companies and positions that will be a good fit with my skills, experience and personality, and to assist in opening the doors to exploring these opportunities.” I know of no resource (anywhere) that would/could address these issues free of any cost.

The only fear tactic was in the mind of blog hostess. I presented the fee in a direct and succinct manner. No hocus-pocus, no fairy dust. It is what it is. We do a job, we get paid. When asked questions, they were answered – directly and without trickery.

To respond to the “bring the spouse” tirade is almost comical but apparently there is a gross misconception perpetuated here. A career search affects everyone in a household. NO spouse is going to make a decision regarding his/her career without the full support of his/her spouse. Additionally, if there are problems at home, the likelihood of a completely successful search is greatly diminished. (i.e., accepting a position simply to placate one’s spouse, etc). These are issues we need to know BEFORE we accept a candidate as a client. As a company we are not predisposed to getting in the middle of a spousal fray, where the potential “settling” for a lesser position could result in OUR client not realizing his/her full potential – ultimately unhappy. Further, it is helpful to know the opinion (as it relates to the candidates career) of the spouse. No smoke, no mirrors – it simply makes sense! For the reasons mentioned above – we never consider a candidate without meeting the spouse (and in this day and time significant other/fiancé/my baby’s daddy/etc., applies).

For the record, the gentleman who arrived without his spouse was NOT chastised in front of the Coble’s, nor was it staged. That comment is simply stupid.

To suggest that JLK-A has some inside track with the Internal Revenue Service, or has any idea if, or how much, a person receives in tax refund is a ludicrous statement. Not only is individual tax information NOT public, it would take a hacker of Herculean talent to delve into the IRS files. Stupid.

There is a Peace quilt hanging on the wall in my office. Every square was handmade by a different person, assembled by a volunteer/reader and sponsored by Midwest Living Magazine. Once completed (and there were 20 quilts), individually they were auctioned to the highest bidders. Every dime raised was donated to the survivor families of 9-11. This is not a vintage or antique quilt that would command huge money in any selling venue. I personally paid a large sum of money at auction for this quilt as the proceeds went for a good cause. It hangs in my office because it helps me remember that terrible day and my money helped families in need. With few exceptions, every person entering my office has commented favorably on it. The auction tags, quilt sponsor and quilt assembler continue to hang on the back. BTW – all 20 quilts hung on display for one year at the Mall of America’s in Minnesota. Mrs. Coble’s spiteful meanness precluded her from asking me about it. The Raphael Cherubs are my fancy (as is the Vintage Victorian NOT Oriental rug) – I plan to see the original Cherubs in Italy this summer. Mrs. Coble was so free to criticize my surroundings – she would die if she saw my beyond eclectic, antique filled home! Wonder what hers’ looks like?!

In conclusion, to those of you who hastily jumped on the JLK-A bashing band- wagon…have you checked out the instigator? Do a Google search on Katherine Coble! She is an angry, opinionated basher of many things – and you might not like her positions either. Never in my life have I felt with such conviction to defend my company, my boss or my ethics. In this case, you, all of you are wrong in your assumptions about JLK-A. Don’t be lead by a negative, attention seeking, unhappy individual who is going through a rough time. Being unemployed and nearly broke would make anyone unhappy. However, an opinion, stated as such is fine. Hers’ was not an opinion, she fabricated quotes, invented an atmosphere that did not exist and led all of you. She lied…pure and simple. Those of you who have made and cancelled an appointment, I wish you luck in your career search. Not knowing the “facts” about my company and believing all this drivel is really your loss. KRM.

 
At 11:29 AM, April 07, 2007, Blogger Kat Coble said...

I did not lie. I did not fabricate quotes.

I am not nearly broke.

Criticism of my home and my husband's job is exactly what I'd expect from these people.

My 'spiteful meanness' did not prevent me from asking about the quilt. My complete lack of interest and the fact that we were not there to talk about quilts kept me from asking about the quilt.

 
At 6:14 PM, April 07, 2007, Blogger Kat Coble said...

Further comments on this post can be found at

my new blog

 
At 3:40 PM, April 08, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This blog was very helpful in hammering in what I already felt I knew about this company.

I'm currently in the OKC area, I'm employed with a 6 figure income but with my recent grad school graduation I decided to toss my resume out and see what surfaces. I've been contacted via email twice from these people. Both times I said it straight about how I feel about recruiters that charge the employee to find them a job. Anyhow to make a long story short I'm extremely brash with these types and people and have no interest ever working with a company such as this.

The extremely long write up from the JL Kirk employee just shows what kind of nonesense goes on at that joint.

 
At 6:15 PM, April 11, 2007, Blogger Synova said...

The reason for absolutely requiring a Support Person present is that someone being subjected to a hard sell who doesn't have that person there will almost always ask to have time to discuss it with their Support Person and get back to them later.

And they will almost always decide not to pay.

Because the item or services are not worth it.

If they were worth it, going home for a "discuss and get back to you" would result in a sale.

BTW, I got here through links starting at Instapundit. A whole lot of people are seeing this right now.

Placement agencies and headhunters take payment from the hiring companies for the same reasons that literary agents and editors take their fees from actual sales. It's just too easy to prey on people's hopes and fears and collect their money without doing anything for them.

If someone is confident they can sell you (or your book, etc.,) they will be happy and comfortable to take their payment when that sale is made. No sale, no fee.

An honest person *might* set up a business the other way around not realizing that their business model is one used by scammers and crooks.

Good luck on the job hunt. There are few things less fun or less emotionally exhausting. Hang in there.

 
At 6:18 PM, April 11, 2007, Blogger Mark said...

Head hunters, recruiters, and employment agencies are commissioned sales organizations. Their commission is generally 20-40% of first year gross income. Commonly, the employer will write the check. However, ONLY at the very highest levels of employment (CEO, President, COO, CFO, etc.) does the company actually PAY for the service.

This is a blantant falsehood. I don't know if it was a willful misrepresentation or ignorance, but headhunter fees are not generally paid by reducing the applicant's salary. The hiring firm pays the fees as a business expense. Think about it; how would a firm using a headhunter otherwise be able to offer competetive salaries and hire the best employees? Any candidate willing to work for 20-40% under market would have to be a moron, unqualified, stupid or all the above. How in the Sam Hill does that make any sense at all?

If this is indicative of the "sales job" you put on her, then I don't think she's too far off the mark.

By the way, great move suing her - you sure earned yourself some national exposure. Dingbat.

 
At 7:52 PM, April 11, 2007, Blogger Mark said...

I think they threatened to sue you because they are afraid of getting sued over their employee's letter!

 
At 9:05 PM, April 11, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess everyone's read bill hobbs and a couple other biggies by now and has figured out that it's all over but the shouting. In all likelihood these guys have destroyed themselves.

I'd like to reassure the poster hiding behind the "pseudo name" of "Eccentric Matronly Grandmother"
that if the suit proceeds (it won't) the facts she wants to bring out to support the 90% success rate, the formula for figuring the fees, and so forth will indeed be brought out. A system is in place to support all these disclosures with subpoenas, testimony under oath, and the like. No worry there.

That law firm has really earned it's money this day, huh?

 
At 9:19 PM, April 11, 2007, Blogger isaidso said...

This is funny beyond words; I wondered what had happened to Bernard Haldane since I haven't seen them advertising in the newspapers for a while.

Since graduating with an MBA from Michigan in 1993, I've been placed in two different jobs by executive recruiters; and I've also talked with many other recruiters. In every instance these recruiters were commission by large corporations to conduct searches. In the two jobs I accepted, I certainly did not suffer a cut in compensation; in fact quite the opposite. I would caution anyone to stay clear of outfits like Haldane/Kirk.

 
At 9:25 PM, April 11, 2007, Blogger isaidso said...

Oh, and by the way...why are you receiving large tax refunds anyway?

The law allows you to file a W-4 once a quarter so that you can adjust your tax-witholding to minimize over-payments to the government. $5,000 or whatever is an awful lot of money to give the federal government as an interest-free loan.

 
At 10:12 PM, April 11, 2007, Anonymous geoff said...

My wife did the Haldane thing many years ago - it was completely useless, and they did only a fraction of what they said they would do. At least they didn't require spousal attendance back then.

 
At 6:45 AM, April 12, 2007, Blogger Wave Maker said...

While the matronly grandmother did a game job of responding here, the one thing she didn't address was the tactic of asking for the chunk of money to be put on the credit card right then and there. Dead giveaway.

 
At 8:39 AM, April 12, 2007, Blogger Rob said...

An Honest Satirical Look at Employment Firms

It is no surprise that you went through an experience like this. Because our society places such a high value on money, it drives some people to do whatever is necessary to get you to hand them your money. Some groups will go so far as to use high powered lobbyists to pay and encourage Congress and State Legislatures to pass laws guaranteeing them the right to your money.

If we want to drive, we are forced to pay for insurance. If we need utilities, we pay the utility company's fees and taxes for them, and they have had laws made giving them the right to collect their government taxes and fees from us, the consumers. However we cannot charge them fees for being good customers. No surprise there.

 
At 8:40 AM, April 12, 2007, Blogger Jeremy said...

Wow, Matronly Grandmother. You write a detailed post of your own, with little tidbits thrown in to bring Coble down and boost JLK, and towards the end you top it all off with a 9/11 reference. It takes balls to use that date to bolster yourself.

Anyway, how long does it take from the moment of payment to find a client a job?

 
At 8:47 AM, April 12, 2007, Blogger John said...

Although I feel bad for them for choosing a lousy placement firm, I fail to see how they were deceived. They had every opportunity to ask questions, ask for a written contract and review the contract before engaging the firm. Nobody forced them to fork over the money and from what I can tell they never asked questions before handing over the cash. Did they ask for references? No. Did they seek out other placement firms to compare fees before forking over 5k? No. Instead of doing the smallest modicum of research they just handed over 5k to a stranger. Great idea. I hand out money to strangers all the time. Any person with half a brain (or an working internet connection)should know that you never front money to a reputable headhunter. It doesn't work that way. They get paid when you get placed. Had these people called a reputable placement firm they could have found this out in 5 minutes. Ah, but who has time for pesky research when riches and prosperity can be yours for $5,000? Besides the fact that these people performed no due diligence whatsoever prior to walking into the building, the reps themselves gave obvious warning signs to stay away. How could the stunt with the person who didn't bring a family member(which seems to have been clearly orchestrated) not have set off huge red flags in your mind? No professional would ever berate someone in front of another potential client and I don't understand why you would choose to do business with someone like that. But again, they did no research, never checked with other companies, missed every obvious red flag, asked no relevant questions, never asked for a contract, never had it reviewed, but they are surprised that they got screwed? What happened to personal responsibility? You wouldn't hand over 5k to someone knocking on your door, so why to someone in a cheesy office (their description, not mine)pushing a hard sell? They were greedy, thats why. All they saw were the promises of riches and were blinded by their ambition and tossed common sense to the wayside. They have no one to blame but themselves for this. Sorry if this seems harsh, but people need to start thinking for themselves and asking questions of those who would take their money for dubious services. This should be a lesson to investigate before giving money to anyone. These people need to accept that they got taken, in large part because of their own self-imposed ignorance instead of placing all the blame on the company. Remember, nobody forced them to do anything....they got greedy and got taken for a ride by someone more greedy than them.

 
At 8:50 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Offtopic, slightly, I ask for your indulgence.

So you consider asking the money after badgering you with fear to be unethical.

And I agree.

Consider then how lawyers operate.

At least with Kirk, you were able to walk away without paying a dime.

A lawyer will give you the same pitch, AND charge you for that first appointment.

Now, most people that need a lawyer are vulnerable, probably a bit scared already, and probably don't have a lot of money. And the lawyers will probably be the first to tell you how crucial it is for you to find a good lawyer and one that you can work with and be honest and open with.

So what are the ethics of demanding money for that first hour interview with a lawyer?

It almost certainly makes sure that the clients find it difficult to interview lawyers until they find one that meets their needs. And having paid the money, it sets up all sorts of confirmation biases where the person that pays wants to believe (regardless of the facts) that the lawyer is doing a good job.

So Kirk, completely unethical, and still, far more ethical than lawyers.

Sigh.

Best wishes to you folks, looking for a good job (much less a career) is really not a whole lot of fun these days.

 
At 8:55 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous scammed-in-mass said...

I wonder how many of these scam organizations are out there. I myself fell victim to the predatory promises of a Boston-based firm called R.L. Stevens. I read through your account and was struck that our experiences were virtually identical, except for the name of the company involved. I "invested" over $5,000 in the R.L. Stevens scam, and all I got out of it was a very expensive resume rewrite.

 
At 8:58 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There isn't much to discuss here really. This company is obviously a con, preying on the unemployed. Legitimate head hunters and recruiters do not charge those they are attempting to place fees - ever. The company pays the fees. As an employer, who uses these companies, I can tell you that most of them are scam artists and you have to be careful which ones you choose to assist you in finding qualified candidates. A 30-40% fee is exhorbitant. 20-25% is more the standard and ,no, any company worth working for is not going to reduce the emploee's salary to cover the fee.

 
At 9:11 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hate to tell you that in 2001, I was approached by either thatg company or a very similar one to it. When the money issue came up I laughed, thanked them for wasting my time and called them theives. After the comment their faces didnt even twitch nor show any surprise.

 
At 9:13 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And for what it is worth, living in St. Paul, and walking in the Mall of America on a regular basis, I call also attest that the Peace quilts, while they WERE displayed at the Mall of America, it was for at most a month, and I think actually more likely 2 weeks, certainly not for an entire year.

 
At 9:19 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Une Yunslob said...

Great rant there John. The only problem is that you obviously didn't read the article very carefully. She DIDN'T fork over the $5k, she and her husband left. The 'lead' they pursued was attending the interview.

I would suggest that next time you actually make sure you know what you are talking about before you embark on a long winded rant to tell someone how stupid they are. It might just save your from looking like an asshole.

 
At 9:30 AM, April 12, 2007, Blogger John said...

Initial consultation with lawyers is much, much different (I am one) here's why:
Lawyers lives (for better or for worse) are ruled by the billable hour. Our time is our product, we don't make money selling cars or repairing watches, time and experience are the products we sell. Say you bill a modest $200/hr (at least in NY) and do three consultations a day. During the consultation, if the attorney is any good, they should spend at least an hour getting an extensive history of your issue, discussing the law and offer possible courses of action. A good lawyer should supply real, useful information to a potential client during an initial interview. Since that hour spend with the client is time that I couldn't spend working on another file, the lawyer shouldn't eat that hour of work. Say the lawyer doesn't charge for this and does 2-3 a day (which many lawyers do). Thats $400-600 A DAY in lost business. You wouldn't expect a plumber to spend an hour in your house for free, would you? So why is it any different for a lawyer? In any event, many lawyers recognize that potential clients get put off by consultation fees, so most only charge them in certain types of cases and they always tell the client up front that they will be billed so there are no surprises. Nothing unethical about that.

 
At 9:35 AM, April 12, 2007, Blogger John said...

Okay, so they didn't pay. Minor detail that wasn't the point of my post. The fact that you focused on that one irrelevant issue shows you didn't understand the purpose of the post. And since you failed to rebut any of the points I made your comment looks more like an attack against the speaker than the content. The point of their story was about the supposedly deceptive practices and my post was in response to that. The fact they didn't turn over the money is irrelevant to the question of whether the practices of the company were legit. Who's the a-hole now?

 
At 9:44 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Tanya said...

Unbelieveable. My husband was on a job search about a year ago and we had headhunters calling all the time. Not a single one ever wanted to charge any sort of "fee" to my husband and if they ever did try that sort of garbage we would have told them to jump off a cliff.

Now this "placement firm" is threatening you with cease and desist letters and whatnot. Cretinous, really. I know that if I ever look for a job in Tennessee (not likely, I admit), I will know precisely what firm to avoid, not due to your post, but to their actions. I hate people who try to use the courts to intimidate people and shut them up. These people reek.

 
At 10:09 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous PA Dave said...

In regard to John's response to une yuslob:
I read your post, and I believe une yuslob was succinct and correct is his/her response to you. You went on and on about how this couple could have saved their "5k" by doing research, making a phone call, and asking relevant questions. However, all your drivel could have been saved had YOU read the original post more carefully to see that the couple realized what they would be getting in to, and kept their money, without having to go through all the additional things you mentioned. The fact that they didn't hand over their cash was NOT "one irrelevant issue," as you stated. The fact that you missed that key bit of information negated your castigating of the couple, and became the main point.

 
At 10:15 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I work for a recruitment firm and we never charge our candidates a dime, despite helping place them in their $100K+ jobs. The money comes entirely from our client companies. There are no magical, secret jobs. Some companies hire using ads in the paper or on the internet, and some companies come to firms like ours to find qualified candidates. Some companies do both.

 
At 10:27 AM, April 12, 2007, Blogger Lee Rudnicki said...

Paying a head hunter in advance is generally not a good idea.

 
At 10:54 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You've been Farked, so it's REALLY gonna get some milage now!

 
At 10:59 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Technodaoist said...

I was 'interviewed' by these shysters back when they were Haldane... Your experience is almost a carbon copy of mine, with the exception that it was only 3300 bucks...

This was approx 4 - 5 years ago, and I had been looking for a 'real' job since the golden age of the internet had gone bust in aught-one...

Fortunately, I had nearly 3 years experience being conned and taken advantage of (thankfully for nothing as serious as 3 grand), so red flags started going off everywhere...

Moral of the story: NEVER pay someone for a promise. Verbal reassurances mean nothing, and everything agreed upon should be seen in writing...

That seems obvious and logical - but as you said, when fear and emotional distress are used against you, it can be easy to forget logic.

 
At 11:00 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

While I believe that everyone has a right to defend themselves against libel, the "Eccentric Grandmother" did her company and herself a disservice by disclosing personal information about the Cobles. That's not very professional, regardless of the provocation.

It only proves the original point of the original posting.

 
At 11:02 AM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The "Support Person" has the same purpose as requiring your spouse to be with your to attend a "Time Share Hardsell". In my three decades of employment(occasionally via headhunter), no recruiter or company ever spoke a word to my spouse. My'spouse's employers have also failed to speak to me (and I have all the dirt!). Many states have right of recision laws granting a couple days to cancel major deals like a new car, house, or mortgage refinance. Giving the hard sell to the "Support Person" helps prevent a call to the credit card company as soon as you hear the last echo of "YOU DID WHAT!"

 
At 11:54 AM, April 12, 2007, Blogger CS said...

Couple of things, and I used to do recruiting.

1. NEVER pay a company a fee for getting you a job. There are plenty of contingency firms out there that will work with you for free.

2. Getting a job thru a contingency firm WILL NOT lower your starting salary. The fees are paid from different lines in the company budget.

3. I don't know how mad I would be over the support person requirement. This is a major purchase for most people, and their spouse SHOULD be involved in teh decision.

4. But most of the onus here is on you. We live in a country with 4.4% unemployment. You have a blog. You have to know this. You might think the rep was a snake oil salesman, but s/he probably did feel that they were helping you out because you are obviously too naive to investigate different methods to get a job on your own.

 
At 12:13 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The company's condescending retort was the nail in the coffin for me. They provided no metrics to prove their success, only the "liar liar pants on fire" defense decorated with flowery language and some outright falsehoods. Interestingly enough, their website echoes this nebulous, self-promotional style. Their tagline of (p) "50 years experience in job placement", implying they've been successfull placing people in jobs for 50 years, turns out to be a collective 50 years of generic experience in the industry by some undefined group of people who run the company.

To the falsehoods... Companies pay headhunter fees to hire employees every day. And we're not talking about 6-figure executives. We're talking about every professional position imaginable. Many large companies feel it is a better use of their resources to pay someone else to sift through their candidates than do it themselves... Largely from a "let the professionals handle it" perspective. As someone else said, it's a cost of doing business. I have DIRECT experience, from both sides of the coin, with University of Colorado Hospital. Not only was I brought in through a headhunter, which UCH paid for, we repeated this process with a great number of middle-tier professionals during my 3+ years in their employ.

While I won't go as far as assuming these people are fraudulent, they ARE the moral equivalent of used car salesmen. Their tactics speak for themselves.

My advice... Go with a real recruiter who charges the prospective employers. In fact, go with several of them. And continue the search on your own also. It's a long and scary road, but the it's the nature of job seeking.

Don't pay good money for some nebulous "secret database". If they've got something better than any of the other head hunters, let them show proof. Otherwise call it for the hype it likely is.

 
At 12:15 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

All it takes is a quick look at the Better Business Bureau website. Always do this with any company that you are paying more than $100.

http://data.middletennessee.bbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=37011228

 
At 12:21 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way... BBB does show that JL Kirk branches other than middle Tennessee have a better statuses ("satisfactory"). You just had the bad luck to find the poo in the pile of leaves :-).

 
At 1:08 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

contactus@jlkirkassociates.com

This is no longer a working email address. Maybe this shit hole went out of business? hjaahahahaha

 
At 1:10 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nashville, TN
5141 Virginia Way,
Suite 230
Brentwood, TN 37027
Tel: 615-376-4650

 
At 1:12 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=2734495

Posted to the main page of Fark.com - There's nothing getting the Kat back into the bag now (pun intended). Thank you so much for posting this.

 
At 2:12 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most every sales pitch out there preys on people's fears and insecurities.

I don't like that, but it's reality. You had the choice to not go through with things, but you did.

Caveat emptor.

 
At 2:21 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't stop laughing! Kat - I truly sympathize with you, and I'm impressed with your courage in being public about these scam artists.

As for the con men - and yeah, that's what you are - just how stupid are you?

Did you REALLY use phrase "ad nausea" (sic) right in the middle of multi-thousand word blather fest? Seriously? Without a hint of irony?

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha

And the joke gets better! That hateful, infantile response, so utterly unprofessional, just gave you national - no, worldwide - exposure as being complete incompetents at best and criminals at worst.

I freaking LIVE in Nashville and WORK in Maryland Farms and I'd never heard of you until today. But thanks to your absolute lack of intellect and amazingly poor judgment, I found a write-up on a polical blog ... and followed the links to countless other blogs ... all mocking YOU!

So ... was that your intent, genius? I think my favorite part is that the loony left and wingnut right blog, who usually hate each other, all seem to happily agree that you and your company are the biggest douches in the universe.

Well done! Well done! Bravo!

I really am sorry for your troubles, Kat ... but I think you found justice. And you certainly gave me a laugh that's going to laugh for years.

What poetic justice. I love it!

 
At 2:24 PM, April 12, 2007, Blogger Nix said...

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. I love the response letter from the Kirk employee. So they donated all the money from the quilt to 9/11 survivors and you should've been psychic and/or obsessed with quilts and asked her about it. Or was that little comment an emotionally manipulative tool to make everyone else reading this wonder if maybe these people are good? See, they donated to 9/11! And what about your home Mrs.? I just can't wait to see what it looks like.

Even if this company was/is/will be legit, that little rant would be the kicker to put me on the list of people never to support that "company". Any company that calls it's potential customers stupid (and in a public forum no less) needs to have horrible things happen to them. That was the most unprofessional response I've ever seen. Thanks so much for letting us all in on the truth!

 
At 2:52 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous bud said...

John, after your first post, I was going to ask if you were either a used-car salesman or a carny, since you seem to share their ethic: "It is morally wrong to allow a sucker to keep his money."

Then you reveal your profession, and I am not surprised.

Q: Why won't a shark eat a lawyer?
A: Professional courtesy.

 
At 3:07 PM, April 12, 2007, Blogger Scorpio said...

I have a policy of *never* dealing with places that charge a fee for employment. Yes, right now the market is harsh. But these scammers are a real piece of work, and it would be best to stay far, far away from them.

 
At 5:16 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Recruiters I know of, get paid this way: They get a percentage of what you make, plus a finders fee.

They *do not* charge potential employees; they make their living pre-screening candidates for firms, and the candidate works for them. If the firm decides to hire the candidate, then *another* fee & possibly a percentage, is paid to the recruiting firm.

This allows a firm to terminate simply by calling the recruiter if it's not working out.

Sure, there were a couple of "You've got to be kidding red flags, the "bring your spouse" was one, the being vague about what they do and how well, another. These aren't points a recruiter is vague about: These are their *selling points* to a candidate.

Scare tactics were just tasteless, but a red flag about whether you'd want to work with them; I wouldn't, if they jerk you around upfront, they're taking your temperature for how badly they're going to jerk you around later.

I hope you have your money back.
If not, I'd go to the labor board and small claims court immediately.

 
At 5:24 PM, April 12, 2007, Blogger Nobrainer said...

My brother was a headhunter for a few years, so I'll add a little to these comments.

At that time, the company he worked for charged no up-front fee (that I'm aware of anyway) and then charged the client 10% of their first year's income.

Headhunters looking for someone to fill a job are often paid by the company offering the job. Headhunters who place job-seekers charge the job-seeker.

If you're going to use a headhunter/recruiter, shop around.

 
At 5:52 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been a contractor for 5 years and in my opinion everyone who asks you for money is a crook. I never deal with them. True contract companies take a percentage of your wage, hire you and contract you out, or get their money from the Company not the employee.

Second, It is an obvious hard sale tactic to have the spouse present for the purpose of removing an obsticle to the sale, "I really like your product but my wife controls the checkbook sorry". well if the wife is there you can pitch her too. This is used alot in the timeshare industry.

 
At 6:26 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Embarrassed of Toronto said...

Sigh. If only your blog (and others who expose these rip-off merchants) existed 12 years ago, I wouldn't have been a victim of the Toronto, Canada sect of Bernard Haldane & Associates (later J.L. Kirk and clones).

They pulled the same scam on me with exactly the same modus operandi. The reason I approached them was that I had never done a job search in Canada (I was transferred here years earlier) and thought that I needed their experience and assistance. All they did was do an interview, conduct a Myers-Briggs Type Indicator test (probably without licensing), recommend pursuing the [then] growing Telecommunications and Finance sectors (obvious advice and diametrically opposed to what I told them I was interested in), insist on the "bring in the wife so she can't talk you out of a bad decision" meeting and let me read their business directory books.

The realization that I was scammed out of a similar amount of money has haunted me ever since. Just seeing the Haldane ad in the paper made me feel guilty. The payback is that despite that incident I have been able to find jobs that I enjoy and I am still happily married to the wonderful woman who went through that horrible process with me.

I applaud you for telling your story. Resources like this didn't exist 12 years ago. The more this story gets told, the fewer likely victims.

 
At 6:28 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Making a prospective "sale" bring their spouse/significant other is a sales tactic often used for high ticket items. This makes it impossible for the prospective customer to say, "Well I need to check with my wife... I'll have to get back to you.". Salesmen don't want you to think about it because most sales that walk out the door don't come back. Also it makes it impossible for the spouses to have an open and meaningful conversation regarding the possible purchase.

 
At 6:50 PM, April 12, 2007, Blogger ceeelcee said...

You even woke my man, Blake Wylie up to post. That should give you an idea of the power of your free specch. Give 'em hell, Kat!

 
At 7:19 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Chris said...

The circumstances of this unemployment would indicate that direction is an issue. Also, his former salary was $20,000 less than his career high, so it would indicate as a job seeker Mr. Coble has had difficulty with sustained upward mobility.

How disgusting. "Would indicate" appears twice - not "might", but "would". Someone quitting their job supposedly indicates "direction is an issue" (whatever that would translate to in English) and a dip in salary is some sort of ironclad proof of difficulty. The job seeker's priorities being different than this apologist is not allowed as a possibility... unless she speaks with the knowledge of information which was privately communicated to her. Basing public remarks upon that "would indicate" her respect for confidentiality.

 
At 7:53 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

to Eccentric Matronly Grandmother

I have been on both sides of the job hunting process. I've hired through recruiters and head hunters, and I have listed with recruiters and head hunters. None has ever requested a dime from either me or my company until a candidate was accepted, or I was hired. In any case, the job hunter did not have to pay anything.

Are you lying about your company? Probably not, but you are certainly unaware of how real job hunting goes. I am not talking about the CEO/COO/CFO level job market, however. Stop and ask professional job placement services how the industry works.

 
At 8:04 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Jeff73 said...

Their commission is generally 20-40% of first year gross income. Commonly, the employer will write the check. However, ONLY at the very highest levels of employment (CEO, President, COO, CFO, etc.) does the company actually PAY for the service. For those below this level, the employee typically pays for the placement in a reduction of salary.

I've just popped by to note that the above statement by the JLKirk employee is a preposterous and blatant lie.

Many others have given this advice, but it can't hurt to reiterate -

If you encounter these signs:
A. Demands for money up front
B. High-pressure sales pitches
C. Insistence on the presence of your spouse

- then you are dealing with scammers. If you value your wallet, drop all contact and move on immediately.

 
At 8:20 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Leslie said...

I am currently out of work and looking for a job and have come across heinous people in my search...the landscaping firm that had no intention of paying me, the endless emails asking me to cash checks from Nigera, for some reason, the Army seems to think I would make a great auto mechanic (I am an Executive Assistant and too old to enlist, btw), fake interviews for pyramid schemes and placement agencies that want to charge me for their "services"...fight the good fight. Maintain your dignity and when you get caught up with malcontents exploiting your weakness - look them straight in the eye and tell them where to go.

 
At 10:51 PM, April 12, 2007, Blogger Atlanta said...

I am a professional recruiter with just over 10 years experience in the field. I have experience both in 'agency' work (contingency and retained placement) and in-house Fortune 50 corporate recruiting.

'Once upon a time', back in the 80's and early '90s, there were agencies that charged fees to the employee for finding them a job. There are still currently outplacement services (usually hired by companies doing downsizing) that help canidates fine tune their resumes and assist in the job search.

That said, I know of *no* legitimate recruiting organizations currently using the business model of JL Kirk's organization. While the 'eccentric grandmother' correctly described the model of most recruiting firms, i.e. that they represent the company's interests, not the candidate's, her assertion that only at the executive levels do companies actually 'pay' for the service is blatant falsehood. Salary levels are determined by the market, not by whether a company must pay a recruiter a fee.

I could pick apart her statement in many other ways, but it's simply not worth the time. Stay away from them.

While this type of business model is legal, so is time share sales - and they have similar tactics. Both are foolish uses of your time and resources. I would stay far away from this organization and any like it.

 
At 11:26 PM, April 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kat,

I so feel for you. In 2001 hubs was out of work for all of 4 weeks and with our first child only 4 months old, we almost got sucked into this by Haldane when they were in some tall downtown building. I went as the Support person, carrying our infant to the meeting as well, and still remember crying as we left and they told us we had to pay $6,000 (funny that was our income tax return that year) for them to get hubs a job. When I refused to do it right then, they shuffled us out and told us we had only 48 hours to accept their offer of help. Thank you Jesus that I cannot take that kind of pressure and something about their pushiness put me off. We dodged a bullet and hubs was employed the next week (and I stopped studying for the Bar exam again).

I am sorry you were not as lucky. We truly didn't even have a credit card at the time that would have held $6,000 or we might have been convinced.

Good luck with your job hunt and good luck with this crap they are throwing your way now. My best recollection from law school is that truth is a defense to all claims of libel or defamation.

 
At 2:48 AM, April 13, 2007, Blogger Vijay said...

With regards to the headhunter's fee - While I know a good number of headhunters are pretty much worthless and will throw you at anyone who looks like they may bite, the fee does NOT come out of your salary at any reasonable firm. Firms employee headhunters with the FULL UNDERSTANDING that they are going to have to carry the cost. They use them because the cost to the firm of sourcing candidates, reviewing resumes and doing the first level of screening is greater than the cost of the headhunter.

Having been on the hiring side many times at several firms and having hired headhunters, I can assure you that I have never yet lowered anyone's salary because of how they came to me. I have never had any of my colleagues even suggest that we do that. It's ridiculous - you won't get good candidates by paying the 20%-40% under the market to try to recover some fee.

 
At 7:34 AM, April 13, 2007, Blogger bigphish said...

Man, if I had only read this back in December, I would still have $4500 in my pocket. I fell for this scam in Denver with a different company. Same pitch, same lies, same used-car salesman pitching it. My biggest concern was that although I have 10 years of experience in my field with progressive increases in responsibility, I do not have a college degree, and getting the "high level" job that I think I deserve for my hard work. They quickly picked up on this as my concern and played on it heavily, finally convincing both me and my wife that the ONLY way I would get the sort of job I wanted was to go through them.
I feel stupid, but I do feel a litter better knowing that I was not the only one to fall for this scam. Hopefully karma will rear it's head and all of these crooks will get what they deserve!

 
At 2:43 PM, April 13, 2007, Blogger edgelady said...

I've been out of the human resources part of things for about seven years, but back when I was hiring for a mid-sized regional law firm I used "headhunters" such as this. We (the law firm) paid all fees -- prospective employees didn't pay anything. The fees ranged from 3.5-6% of the person's annual income (the one they were hired at). So I'm really surprised by this.

 
At 3:28 PM, April 13, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of scams, virtually all of the lawyers I know do intial consultations for free to determine whether there's a case or not. Only after the lawyer has determined that there is a case would the lawyer offer up a fee agreement to the client. If the client chooses not to sign, then there's no charge whatsoever. I don't know what kind of law John practices, or where he practices, but that's how we've done it at every place I've worked.

Kat, good for you for (a) listening to what was said instead of succumbing to the hype, and (b) letting other people know about your experiences. As you can see from the comment trail, you've helped a bunch of people save their money by disclosing.

An Ohio Lawyer

 
At 10:50 AM, April 14, 2007, Blogger Tish said...

I am an HR Manager in the Knoxville area. I deal with recruiting firms when searching for good job candidates. I have dealt with several reputable companies, and I can tell you from experience that the hiring company typically pays the placement fee! We generally pay about 25% of the annual salary. The candidates that we interview do NOT pay any fees!

I got my own job through a recruiting firm as well - Robert Half and Associates. They were great! They really worked hard to find me the perfect job. I've been in the position they found for me for over 6 years now. And guess what? I didn't pay a dime in fees!! Not a dime! And that's the way the majority of these firms operate.

I've worked with Robert Half, Aerotek, and @Work, and they have all been fantastic! If any of them have offices in your area, please give them a call. I think you'll be very pleased.

And if you need any advice, just drop me an email! Best of luck to you. I'm sorry that you had to deal with a company like J.L. Kirk. Believe me - they are NOT all like that!

 
At 11:59 AM, April 14, 2007, Anonymous Orwell's Ghost said...

My aunt's a headhunter (she prefers the term recruiter) and I worked for her a while back, so I know something of the industry. There's a significant percentage of scumbags in it, sad to say, and this sort of thing isn't uncommon. There's no need to charge the candidate a fee as the company has much more money than someone who's out of work.

Probably the best way to search for a job nowdays is to be registered on all the Monster-like sites, have your friends keep an eye out and use a recruiter that doesn't charge you- they can also help refine your resume. If you're in a field that has a professional organization or guild, that's also an excellent resource. Your alma mater might also be helpful even decades after you graduated.

There is some ageism out there, so if your resume lists every job you've had since 1977, that could actually count against you. It's always a good idea to have your resume saved in several formats (Word, .pdf) and burned onto a CD or on a flash drive- some people don't handle paper if they can help it. If you played high school or college sports, put that on your resume as some employers feel it translates into being a better salesperson.

There are few things worse than looking for a job. After several interviews that didn't go anywhere, you might become discouraged and negative, something interviewers will pick up on. Being enthusiastic and positive can help sell you to the employer.

There's a growing trend to Google/Myspace/Facebook candidates, with one in five tech companies reporting that they do this. I've Googled candidates and found pictures of them holding Tupperware full of pot, so it's a good idea to check.

Always be early to the interview, always have extra copies of your resume and always shine your shoes. And good luck!

 
At 12:05 PM, April 14, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JL Kirk's email is still being returned as undeliverable.

On a whim, I called their office. Their voice mail lists 8 people who work there:

Rich
Debra
Jackie
Alison
Celeste
Karen
Paul
Pamela

Just curious, which one is "quilt lady"?

 
At 9:10 AM, April 15, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To a real recruiting firm, I'm the product, not the customer.

I've been placed by technology recruiters at least a dozen times without spending a nickel. Someone asks you for money to place you, you need to runaway screaming...

 
At 3:02 PM, April 15, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

“The interviewer left us alone in the room digest the booklet on our own terms”

A common sales tactic is to bug and monitor those rooms. This is sop at auto dealerships, health cubs, furniture stores and just about any similar sales businesses. So while your discussing “the deal” with your wife the scumbag salesperson is listening in.

 
At 10:30 AM, April 16, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If anyone ought to sue in this matter, it's Mr. and Mrs. Coble who should sue JL Kirk. The "matronly grandmother" who posted in this response committed several actionable torts in her post. Not the least of which was twice calling Mrs. Coble "stupid", disclosing private and privileged information, defaming her husband by depicting him as an aimless underachiever who is regressing in his career prospects, and making public claims about the family's finances (calling them "broke").

The firm is utterly foolish for threatening to sue Mrs. Coble. The best thing they could do is drop the matter immediately, hope the publicity dies down, and hope they don't get sued themselves.

 
At 11:33 AM, April 16, 2007, Anonymous puffy said...

A few years ago I experienced the exact same situation with a similar “job shop”. Me - good credentials, suddenly out of work, and in desperate need of a job (and money). Them – high pressure sales tactics, exploitation of my situation, and lots promises (to be delivered after my payment of course). Suspicious of their behavior and unable to afford their up-front price I passed on their services; this did not deter them from calling in an effort to lure me back. It took a several months but I was able find a really good job all by myself, BEFORE any of the other legitimate agencies (who didn't try and charge me) located anything.

 
At 12:43 PM, April 16, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some time ago my wife and I went through this process with J.L. Kirk of Brentwood. They determined that I was definitely under-employed and that they could help me improve my career and pay.

After foolishly forking over a pile of money, I took the personality assessment and was assigned a coach to help me revise my resume and improve my interviewing skills. This help turned out to be entirely things I had already read in books or learned in graduate school from the placement office. The coaching they provided me to develop my network was to have me make cold calls to people whose names I found in business publications and business articles. Not so great for someone identified as a borderline introvert with no sales experience on the tests they gave me.

I used the revised resume to apply for some positions I found online, and the only result I got from it was requests for clarification and more info as the coach had advised me to remove most of the meat of my experience from the resume.

I went back to using my own version of my resume and continued to use the internet job sites. When I found positions at Nashville companies where I had no connections or contacts, I emailed requests to my coach to see if J.L. Kirk had any clients or contacts at these companies whom they could put me in touch with. I would get absolutely zero response to these requests. I complained to the owner/president who said they had been getting other complaints about this guy and were going to let him go. I ended up getting assigned a new person to work with. The new coach also did not respond to these reqests for J.L. Kirk's clients or contacts at the companies I was interested in. So I complained again and ended up getting the old coach, whose job had apparently been miraculously preserved, re-assigned to me. I tried one more time to get some type of help from this coach in contacting the companies I was interested in, but once again received no response.

After a somewhat terse exchange of emails with the owner/president which included threatening me with his lawyer, I have had no further contact with J.L. Kirk. Although I guess I am still a "client" as the money that is paid to them is supposed to cover working with you for three years, a year has passed since these events with no word from them. No contact except for the solicitation they send me whenever I update my resume on Monster.

 
At 4:04 PM, April 16, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I also met with JL Kirk Associates, in late 2006. The fee they quoted me for their service was $4,500, almost the same as Mrs. Coble's husband was quoted. If indeed they base their fee on your current salary and your target salary, then surely those of us who have posted here would have more varying amounts to report. Perhaps instead they charge everyone relatively the same amount. As I am single and went alone to both interviews, I was unaware of their support person charade.

The arrogant woman with whom I met told me that she is "the best in the company" and can therefore do as she pleases. While she thought I was impressed to know that she was the best search counselor in the company, my immediate impression was that she is their best sales person and nothing more. I wasn't impressed at all and never went back after the 2nd interview.

The woman with whom the Cobles met must be doing quite well with the company, given her boasting about the quilt for which she paid a lot of money at auction and the fact that she's going to Italy this summer. Somebody is making plenty of money there, aren't they?

While I realize and appreciate that many people perhaps do benefit from this service, I find it reprehensible that any company takes advantage of people when they are at a low point in their life/career and will do anything to make it better. But what goes around always comes back around.

Oh, and Ms. Matronly Grandmother, I highly recommend that you find yourself a book on the proper usage of punctuation.

 
At 4:20 PM, April 16, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had almost the EXACT same experience in 2005 with JL Kirk in Brentwood. They are scammers, swindlers and career-crossroads highwaymen. And the use of "JL" to stand for "Jesus is Lord" is beyond tacky. Merely putting them out of business is too good--they need to tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail!

Napster a Go Go

 
At 7:05 PM, April 16, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think my favorite part was when she called you poor. Are we in third grade?

I'm shocked they didn't rob you blind when they called both of you into the meeting.

I am incredibly proud of you for standing your ground. I read about you in the city paper and East Nashville has been talking about you all day! We are behind you!

 
At 8:38 PM, April 16, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow!

These people have very large "egos" to say the least.

I had a similar experience several years ago and I'm $4,500 poorer as of now.

They promised the moon and delivered rancid cheese.

Their "key" people kept mysteriously disappearing right before my next step in their idiotic process.

I complained to Kirk and never got even a whisper of response.

Here'e the incredible part: a lady representing Kirk called several weeks ago giving me the same sales pitch. I told her of my horrible experience and she assured me someone from Kirk would soon call to clear everything up. Guess what? no call ever came.

Steer clear of Kirk is my advice.

I'd love to see you sued and I would come back with all these other people and put together a suit to permanently put them out of business.

You remain in my thoughts for good fortune.

By the way, I found the perfect job the old fashioned way. I went out there and found a company that needed just what I had to offer and moved on.

DB in Nashville

 
At 11:20 PM, April 16, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got an email from JL Kirk too soon after I graduated college. Their email made it seem like they had seen my resume on Monster and had a job for me. Well no, they wanted I think $1200 (not $4500)-- immediately I froze up, said no thanks, and left. Your article brought back their whole chintzy office to me. And if my memory serves, they kept me waiting too for the appointment. I hope you beat these sharks Ms. Oble for all of us desperate job seekers who lost time and money!

 
At 12:07 PM, April 17, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

They're idiots. Stand strong. Best Wishes. I think it's safe to say the blogging community stands behind you.

 
At 8:41 AM, April 18, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Somewhere in our recent history, people started up companies with little or no cash. Using the very tactics you describe, they talk people into putting money up front with pie-in-the-sky stories of successand failing to every provide the service described. It's underhanded, s con and should be illegal. I am always suspect of anyone offering me a service and requiring upfront monies. If they have run a credit check on me, they should know my integrity. I will sign a contract and then live up to our agreement and they had better do the same. I have had wonderful business relationships with only a handshake. If someone does not have enough capital or a decent contract to do business with you, THEN WALK AWAY. You will be better off in the long run. I support what you are doing here however, I will be surprised if it makes much difference in the business wolrd. When the day comes that we can all stick together on these issues maybe we can put the con-artists out of business.

 
At 9:02 AM, April 18, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eccentric Matronly Grandmother is most definitely a con-man or con-woman. You can tell by all of her B.S. When in doubt all con-artists resort to the old adage. If you can not dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

 
At 7:57 AM, April 19, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

DOWN WITH THE CORPORATE GIANTS AND THERE STRONGHOLDS!!!

 
At 8:11 AM, April 19, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bravo, Katherine. You done good. Not only have you exposed an illegal and nefarious business practice but you have also set up a forum in which the fat lady from JLKirk not only shot herself in both feet but also cut off her nose to spite her face.

I hope you keep us updated on what transpires with your state's Attorney General. I suggest you also file a written complaint - with a specific focus on their attempt to separate you from your $4k+ - with your local county's prosecutor (and the county prosecutor for Maryland Farms).

That woman is unprofessional and may also have violated confidentiality laws by discussing in such detail things from the interviews.

I am part of the families of 9-11. I will ask around about this supposed quilt donation.

Keep up the pressure.

Signed me,

Sauerkraut

run4chocolate.wordpress.com

 
At 9:08 PM, April 19, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I read through (most) of the comments left on this issue. Wow. I'm trying not to laugh. On one hand you have people "upset" that they are suffering because others are better at making money then they are. And on the other, you have people "upset" because the nature of their business is being exposed for what it is.

Perhaps if the Cobles spent more time looking for work, and less time complaining about how others make money ... envy wouldn't be their motivation to anger?

Perhaps if JLK-A put forth an effort to demonstrate their effective compassion for their clientel, concern for their business model wouldn't be a fear?

But I guess it is always easiest to just blame someone else for our shortcomings.

Happiness is your personal responsibility ... stop blaming others for your bad choices.

Making money comes at the expense of others. Poverty and oppression are natural byproducts, I didn't see a single post on her about the plight of 1.2 billion people living on a $1 a day ... I guess we were all too busy feeling self-righteous and pretentiously entitled.

 
At 7:58 AM, April 20, 2007, Blogger rondeth said...

Well done! And you're doing a public service by getting the word out on this type of scam.

I live in Nashville, but was contacted by a firm called ITS from Denver. Same EXACT lines and way of working, except of course everything was done by phone in our case. They promise access to the "hidden" job market, which any real professional will tell you is a fairly tale (at least in how they present it). Personality tests, putting their 'marketing department' behind me, etc. They wanted $7500 from me. I too had just updated my resume on Monster. I'd hate to believe a company just like those scumbags exists right here in the Nashville area...but I don't doubt it based on the similarity of what you've written to my experience.

I'm including some links to & about the company I dealt with...steer clear!

http://usajobmarket.com/salary.pages/contactUs-.html


http://randomconvergence.blogspot.com/2006/03/rest-of-mckenzie-scott-saga.html


http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/logistics-manager/05390c183c137e1b70784b07

May want to file a BBB report as well. Cheers!

 
At 1:02 PM, April 23, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for the information. I recently recevied an offer from JLK-A and was in the process of my 2nd meeting. While going to the meeting, I called up another headhunter I’ve been dealing with and she read me the article from the city paper.

When I got to the office, the person I was to talk with was 15 minutes late and a gentleman walked in and sit down. Looking a bit desheveled, he asked if I were a client of JLK as well, and when I said no, he replied “Good luck, I’ve been here for a year and have yet to get the first interview”. He then proceeded with “you know 2400.00$ is alot of money to pay for this service” I responded, “2400.00$!!!!, are you serious?” Yes he said, and “I’m very dissapointed”. At that point, I said “Well, I believe I’ll be pro-active and LEAVE NOW”. Which is exactly what I did.

You need to keep this up, and even call the I-Team to expose this. Taking money from folks who are down on their luck is a bad deal.

Thanks again.

 
At 1:48 PM, April 24, 2007, Blogger Ray said...

I too fell victim to JL Kirk's heavy-handed techniques. After several months of no action, I contacted Kirk Leipzig and complained. Not only did he not help me, he accused me of being a bitter person and threatened to sue me if I expressed my opinion of his company in a public forum. I hope he burns in Hell (maybe he was right about me being bitter).

By the way, I have copies of my emails with him if you are interested.

 
At 4:01 PM, May 01, 2007, Blogger borris said...

do you have any idea as to why this blog is search position 1 for 'caribou's common.js library'
which happens to be googles main javascript for seperating adwords from organic listings?

 
At 7:31 PM, May 02, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ya know....I wonder how many of us are actually doing what we want to for a living. We may spend $3,500 on Botox or a flat screen TV, but not to strategically plan our careers. Doesn't sound like anyone put a gun to your head. So it wasn't for you. Keep your job at McDonald's then.

 
At 1:06 AM, May 04, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have pretty much the same story as you with JL except that we did not pay. I had my resume posted on monster.com they emailed me saying that they would like to talk to me. I went in for my first interview did some research before my wife and I met with them. I actually met with either JL or his brother or maybe it was both of them. One thing that I remember in the second interview that turned me off and put up some major red flags was the guy saying "J.L. Kirk stands for Jesus loves Kirk." I do not know if it was the way he said it or what it was combined with but he said that and I was like this place is a scam house. I am 36 and also was quoted the $4420 purchase price and that I was being given a huge discount as I was so young and still pretty sharp and up to date in my field. My wife is the smart one money wise and basically told them we would have to think about it and see where we would pull the money from/etc. I did even harder research and was told her forget it. I never contacted them nor they me again.

 
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At 4:25 PM, May 08, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the warning. I am relocating from Florida to Nashville and was just contacted by this firm, so I "googled" them and came up with your blog.

I think I am going to cancel my appointment with them.

 
At 9:46 AM, May 09, 2007, Blogger horse said...

Everybody is selling something. If you don't want to buy what Kirk is selling, that's your business. What he does for a living is his business. In fact, his service has been very valuable to some people. No doubt it's of no value to others.

All of you might enjoy life more if you'd get one, rather than venting on this blog.

 
At 9:51 AM, May 09, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That last comment is correct. If you want to see some people this company has helped, you can read the testimonials on their website.

And by the way, Jesus must really enjoy reading the comment that says you hate people who market in the name of Jesus. Jesus apparently did a great job of teaching you to hate.

 
At 8:45 PM, May 10, 2007, Blogger krazykat said...

When I first went to JL Kirk Associates, I had never heard of any company like them. My story is probably pretty common; I was downsized from an automobile maker in Michigan. My wife and I researched many cities and thought Nashville would be a good place to settle with our two high school-aged kids. We were right and wrong.

I had contacted every headhunter and recruiter in the area and had widened my search as far as Birmingham, Alabama and Memphis - and still unsuccessful. This is not to say that I didn’t have interviews, I did. I was interviewed by companies who were not prepared to pay even HALF my former salary, and given I possess a masters degree and twenty plus years management experience, the entire situation was demoralizing to say the least. One company I interviewed with was a referral from one of the recruiting/headhunter firms. When I got to the interview the HR person told me that indeed they were interviewing to hire an operations manager but they had not budgeted or agreed to pay ANY placement fees and if hired, I would have to “settle” with the placement firm myself. THE FEE WOULD HAVE BEEN $26,000!!!!! The HR representative told me that she had received a “cold call” from the headhunter who had nearly begged her to interview me! I was floored and angry! Under no circumstances could I accept their position, which was considerably below my skill sets and salary range, and I was not prepared to pay $26k!

In March of ’06 I was contacted by JL Kirk Associates and went to the interview. In one hour I found out more about myself, and why my miserable job search wasn’t working than I had ever considered. The interviewer was a nice lady and given my experience with the headhunter I was very gun-shy.

When we arrived for our second meeting, the office staff was lively and we were made to feel welcome. We spent almost 2 hours meeting with a Vice President who went into detail about their marketing services and answered all our questions. About 30 minutes into the meeting I asked if there was a fee and our representative answered that there WAS and offered to discuss it at that point.

What we found interesting about the entire concept is that JL Kirk was offering to represent ME, not a company. They were prepared to work with me to make me look better to a potential employer. The most astonishing thing was they would help me find out exactly what I wanted to do. It never occurred to me (since I was with the same company for over 20 years) that in this new city the world as my oyster. I REALLY HAD NO IDEA WHAT I WANTED TO DO! The fee for their services…$5100.00. In retrospect given what these people have done for me, I should have paid much more. I can’t imagine why anyone in the job market would undertake the task without someone in THEIR corner. All the sage advice to the contrary seems to come from people who haven’t a clue.

In less than 5 weeks I was already considering 3 offers! My career advisor helped me “find” exactly what I wanted to do, and it was a 180 from where I had been. Since I had never really negotiated a compensation package, I was clueless. I ended up with a very nice signing bonus AND a starting salary $11,200 over my former salary! I might add, Kirk Leipzig himself took me to meet the CEO of my new company over lunch at a local country club. The job was designed specifically for me. Without that meeting, I would have been just like everyone else…sending my resume for review for a job that didn’t exist.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that you get what you pay for! I paid for a service and resources I didn’t have. Over several months I’ve gone back to review and tweak my plan for the future. The people at JL Kirk Associates ROCK, and anyone who says different, simply can’t see the forest for the trees!

BTW – I’m Jewish and wasn’t the least bit offended by the Christian atmosphere as it is truly genuine!

 
At 8:13 PM, May 13, 2007, Anonymous mfm said...

I got fleeced by J.L. Kirk. I paid them $3800 and all they did was help me write a resume. They promised "business contacts" and that they would contact me regularly with opportunities. They would search the internet and send me opportunities that had nothing to do with my background. They are a huge rip-off. I don't want to see anyone else get swindled like I did.

 
At 11:14 PM, May 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got the same phone call from "Pamela" saying that a "Career Specialist" had reviewed my resume and that they would like to set up an interview with me . Not realizing what their tactics were , I returned the phone call and set up an appointment for this Wednesday. I then started doing a little research on the company via our friend Google. After reading this blog and a few more former client experiences , I left them a rather nasty voicemail stating I wouldn't pay them for finding myself employment and to NEVER contact me again. Thank you so much for keeping me out of going through such a bad experience!

 
At 10:01 AM, May 23, 2007, Blogger Tambo said...

I also received a call from Pamela wanting me to call to set up an appt with their career specialist. I am always suspicious of scams these days, so I decided to do an internet search on them first. I am so glad I did. I will not call them back now! I am sorry for your financial loss. I hope everything turns out ok for you. I agree with the person who says to call Turko (is he back in Nashville?). If not, Andy Cordan on channel 2 does a series called "That's Messed Up". Maybe someone should contact him about JL Kirk and Associates.

Good Luck with your husband's job search!

 
At 10:15 AM, May 23, 2007, Blogger Tambo said...

I just realized I read your original post wrong. It looks like you did not pay them the money. I am so glad you did not. At first I thought you did, and that would make me sick for you. I am still sorry you had to go through the process. What happened to the job firms that got paid once they found you a job? Isn't that how it used to work. They would take a portion of your pay in the beginning to cover their expenses.

 
At 12:49 PM, May 29, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just heard from the JL Kirk folks in Madison, Wisconsin and had an intial meeting with them today. They asked if I had a support person (I don't) and we scheduled another meeting for next week. I asked about fees directly several times, they wouldn't give any info, etc. The meeting went very much the same as yours. I cannot thank you enough for posting this! Kelly

 
At 9:45 AM, June 09, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for this blog. I had a message on my answering machine
from JL Kirk wanting to schedule an interview. I searched "J L Kirk" and this blog popped up.
Needless to say, I will not be calling them back. You saved me time and frustration.

 
At 11:58 AM, June 18, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was contacted by J L Kirk after posting my resume on a job search engine. My experience was exactly as you stated. The biggest red flag was that "because of a computer problem" the recruiter i talked to had been unable to retrieve my resume. Dispite this annoying fact, she was able to present my wife and I with a "comprehensive, personlized profile" of myself. Apperently in our 20 to 30 minute meeting she was able to gleen the essence of me and distill it down to several presentable pages. And boy was I talented. And of course they would "match" me with a highly trained career consultant. My perfect career consultant was named Dan, as he was the only other person in the office. I'm willing to bet that if Dan were to have the initial meeting with a potential client that Judith, whom I was meeting, would be the career consultant.

Thanks for the posting. it may have saved me a lot of head, heart and wallet ache.

 
At 3:45 PM, June 19, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, Coble, you sound like a real bitch. Frankly, the "grandmother;y" response seems reasoned and intelligent. Next to your screed, it reads like a Jesus-level sermon.

 
At 2:45 PM, June 22, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I went thru the very same experience a couple of months ago in OKC. At the END of the 2nd "meeting", after wasting over 3 hours of my time (more like 5 or 6 if you count the commute time) they wanted $4500. BUT WAIT! IF I give them a credit card TODAY, I can get their wonderful services for only $3995!!!!! And they even offer financing! Boy was that guy a salesman too. WOW. I'm so glad I didn't think twice about it (I just bought a house and don't have that kind of $$ to spend on a job search!). About 3 days later they even called me back, asking (pushing) me to reconsider.
Today one of my co-workers told me about this GREAT meeting he had with a "Marketing Firm" about a job search (he's relocating). He was all excited, and then I had to fill him in on what that 2nd meeting with his spouse would really entail. We figured out it was the same people and place, just a different name. So OKC residents beware, they have changed their name to "Oklahoma Professional Search".

 
At 11:23 AM, June 23, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANYONE WHO BRAGS ABOUT WHAT A BIG CHRISTIAN THEY ARE TYPICALLY WANTS TO BE VIEWED BEYOND REPROACH JUST LONG ENOUGH FOR THEM TO BEND YOU OVER AND DRIVE IT HOME. THESE FOLKS WIL BURN IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!

 
At 2:28 PM, July 03, 2007, Anonymous jobless said...

I didn't read through every comment but I found a new twist.

After posting my resume on Careerbuilder, I was contacted by a company called "The Executive Professionals" in San Diego, Ca. I though they were recruiters as well. I googled them and didn't find any this suspious. After 5 minutes in Scott Simon's office I was getting the same sales pitch as all the others.

After hours of research and reading all the negative info about the Bernard Haldane vis-a-vie J.L Kirk associates, I found that the Irvine, Ca office of "The Executive Professionals" has the same address as the Bernard Haldane's Irvine office.

So, my conclusion is they has changed names to The Executive Professionals.

 
At 9:03 PM, July 08, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My husband “Ken” is a client at JL Kirk. He went to one interview by himself. At that interview Connie asked him to bring me for a second meeting with Karen. This meeting went really well. The first thing I noticed when we sat down was that they had “The Fish” radio playing in the background. When they told us what JL stood for we felt really good about the company. They went on to tell us…. They had contacts, and would get Ken in front of the decision-makers. CONTACTS WERE EXACTLY WHAT WE NEEDED!!!! The fee was expensive but we still thought it was the best way to go.
Ken got a good resume. But now months later, we have been told (by Rich), the money was really for the process they were teaching Ken. The idea of the “informational interview” can be found in a book for $12.
They have no contacts and Ken has been left on his own to look for contacts. THE EXACT THING WE WERE TOLD JL KIRK HAD AND THE EXACT THING WE NEEDED.
JL Kirk’s business practices teeter on the edge of being legal, but have fallen off the edge of ethical. If any concerns are brought into the office, Rich (Kirk’s brother) becomes very defensive, arrogant, and condescending. His response and behavior made us realize our concerns were true. All that glitters is not gold. I hope no one else gets burned by JL Kirk’s dishonesty and they quickly go out of business.

 
At 2:57 AM, July 18, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Avoid this company like the plague. I spent over $4,000 with them. They helped me put together a nice resume, prepped me with a few mock interviews, and told me how to make cold calls and unsolicited visits to companies. This would have been a good service for maybe $400, but not $4,000plus. Why did I pay for this service? Simple they told me that they would provide contacts and get me in front of decision makers. Once they had my money, they acted as if they had never claimed this. You be the judge, Do you think I or anyone else would have agreed to spend $4k for only the service provided? I know what I was told and this seems to be the status quo with this firm. They use very unethical tactics and flat out lie about the service they will provide to deceive the down and out. They do this in the name of Christianity. They say they are members of Cornerstone Community Church in Nashville. I am a Christian and this experience has made me sick. I am still out of work and struggling to make contacts. I have to pray daily for the strength to forgive. I also pray that others will not be hurt by this business. Beware, read the fine print. Don’t trust what they say.

 
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At 11:07 AM, August 10, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the EXACT same unethical and borderline illegal practice used by RMC International http://rmcijobs.com

Please do not waste your time or money on them, it is an unbelievable scam!!

I was fortunate enough to find this blog after my first "meeting" and will do my best to see to it that they go out of business!

 
At 3:33 PM, August 15, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just googled 'bad recruitment agency' and your article appeared on page 1!
Thought agencies here in UK were bad until I read yours.
Still, they say the UK runs behind you in 'pratices' so I'm sure it will appear here soon.
Forewared is forearmed so many thanks for posting this.

 
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At 5:45 PM, September 10, 2007, Blogger LK said...

Now I don't feel as stupid as I did when in a moment of despair and desperation I forked over $4000 of my hard earned savings (via credit card of course) to the Haldane outfit(later called Carnegie Career Counselors). That was four years ago and I am still stinging from the bite. I actually had a chance to escape when I told them I needed to think about it overnight. After forking over my money, I even had to drive to the offices one hour away to meet my career "counselor" weekly for guidance and stuff for the cheesy notebook they give you. I soon I realized that I was my own counselor and was already equipped to do what their video presentation said they'd do. When I challenged my counselor on the piss-poor service that I "wasn't" getting, he stopped responding to my emails. I just sucked it up and chalked it up as a major loss...and to a very expensive lesson in trusting your own instincts. No matter how low you feel without a job (or pending joblessness) you'll feel even lower less $4K that you could be paying rent with, a car note or feeding yourself.
I pray no one else will go through what I have gone through. Trust yourself. You are your own best advocate...next to God.

 
At 1:00 PM, September 14, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

J.L. KIrk & Associates is now known as: Transition America - So beware.

 
At 5:02 PM, September 19, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I also signed up with "The Executive Professionals." I gave them almost $5k as they said they could not guarantee me a job, but they could guarantee me an interview in 30 days. it did not happen, and I put in all the work. They have a new owner, Robert Perez, who did not know what he was getting into. TEP was formally Bernard Haldane, but now are not for the past few years. With the new owner, everyone in the Irvine office was replaced but Barrie, the guy who lures you in with talk of big numbers and 40 placements a month. Don't let them scam you.

You will never get your money back. AVOID THEM AT ALL COSTS!

Always check the BBB. www.labbb.org.

 
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At 8:21 PM, October 16, 2007, Blogger think4achange said...

Want to know why they invited the spouse to the interview? It's virtually the same reason most high-end big ticket sales presentations are handled this way - it is called "breaking the blood pact". Basically, when a couple go to any sales presentation, they both agree in advance, "honey - we're not going to buy anything today". Well, when the salesman figures out the relationship dynamics, he or she will usually turn the "yes" person in the couple against the "no" person. Most of the time - it DOES work. I know this because I made a great deal of money teaching and coaching sales people in the field of high-end sales. One of my coleagues mottos used to be -"If you can't enhance a couple's life by selling them a product, the least you can do is turn them against each other! It is a horrible thing to do. I am guilty just the same and have totally changed careers as a result.

 
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At 7:06 PM, December 03, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just had my second interview and they wanted 4750 up front then I said can't do before the holidays. Then that scratched off the addional $2000 I would need to pay after 1 year of employment "invest in your future" BS. When They said the fee was non negotiable all the sudden after a conference I could pay 1/2 now and 1/2 at the end of the year. If they can get the company to pay I will be totally refunded. Now why would a company pay and why would this company asked to be paid? Well I canceled my 3rd interview. They said slap it on a credit card. I said I'd rather slap it on presents for nephews

 
At 7:14 PM, December 03, 2007, Blogger Marla said...

I just had my second interview and they wanted 4750 up front then I said can't do before the holidays. Then that scratched off the addional $2000 I would need to pay after 1 year of employment "invest in your future" BS. When They said the fee was non negotiable all the sudden after a conference I could pay 1/2 now and 1/2 at the end of the year. If they can get the company to pay I will be totally refunded. Now why would a company pay and why would this company asked to be paid? Well I canceled my 3rd interview. They said slap it on a credit card. I said I'd rather slap it on presents for nephews

 
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At 12:17 AM, January 08, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watch out for ITS - it is the same scam only by telephone.

Will someone get rid of the bad crossposts on this Blog please!!

 
At 3:15 PM, January 09, 2008, Anonymous not-a-victim-of-RMCI said...

Thanks for the Blog, you saved me hours of wasted time due to RMC International AKA RMCI JOBS and they scam they almost pulled on me.

 
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At 6:54 AM, February 11, 2008, Blogger Manikandan said...

Hi .nice blog.I am HR of a well-developing concern.I need to post jobs .can anybody suggest best way..
thank you............

 
At 8:43 PM, March 11, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BTW - they are now Transforming America. Thanks for the post so I didn't waste my time meeting wit them.

 
At 1:33 PM, March 26, 2008, Blogger kenny said...

A few years back I was an unemployed programmer working at a bike shop to pay the rent. I then interviewed with Bernard Haldane (JL Kirk's former name). Every thing you said seems to jive with what I remember. Although I don't remember if I was to bring a "Support Person" to the second interview or not. On my way to the second interview,which is when they promised to show me my revised resume (I already had it professionally written by this time) and talk fees. As I drove the PA turnpike to Philly for the second interview, something clicked inside of me. I got off the turnpike and took a long drive back home and then took a long bike ride. I kept saying I'll call and reschedule "something came up at the last minute". By the end of my ride I said "screw them, I'm not paying them". The red flags may have been that the office was in a converted hotel or the comment "You should have talked to us 2 years ago".

 
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At 4:09 PM, April 05, 2008, Blogger Darin said...

The exact same thing happened to my wife in Brentwood, TN, the same city this happen in, but the company was called Transforming America. The guy was a total fraud and continued to try to make us feel beneath him, and then proceeded to ask for $6,250. I have never heard from anyone who this system has worked for to date.

 
At 2:29 PM, May 06, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello,

I don't have a tax return, normally I have to pay money to the federal/state/city (because of interests, shares, rents).

Wondering if these people will offer me money to place my resume in the amount of the tax I pay. :))

Seems they are natural born crooks.

 
At 10:00 AM, May 15, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

DO NOT USE R. L. Stevens & Associates. Their hard-sell pressure tactics are virtually identical to those described in the author's post. They will mislead about what they can and will do for you, make you feel inadequate to find a job on your own, ridicule other job search services, and pressure you and your spouse to emotional exhaustion while trying to convince you that giving them your last dollar is your only hope of finding employment. We wasted over $5,000 on them and the only useful thing I got was a resume rewrite. The client is expected to do all the job search work (of course, they do not tell you that up front). They do not have insider information on unpublished openings and they will not provide you with targeted job opportunities as they claim.

 
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men in pain -
midnight prowl -
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no cum dodging allowed -
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dirty fuck dolls -
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At 3:31 AM, August 22, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

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dangerous dongs -
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kelsey xxx -
knocked up nina -
latina girl girl -
lesbian teen hunter -
little naughty nymphos -
mandys diary -
mexxxi cunts -
midnight lurkers -
mike in brazil -
mikes apartment -
milf hunter -
milf lessons -
milf next door -
money talks -
monsters of cock -
mr big dicks hot chicks -
mr cameltoe -
mr chews asian beaver -
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At 3:31 AM, August 22, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

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dirty teachers pet -
download pass -
drilled and filled -
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erotic spank -
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euro sex parties -
fill my pink -
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flower tucci -
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her thick black ass -
horny spanish flies -
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latina girl girl -
lesbian teen hunter -
little naughty nymphos -
mandys diary -
mexxxi cunts -
midnight lurkers -
mike in brazil -
mikes apartment -
milf hunter -
milf lessons -
milf next door -
money talks -
monsters of cock -
mr big dicks hot chicks -
mr cameltoe -
mr chews asian beaver -
my busty girlfriend -
naughty indian girls -
ox pass -
panties and fannies -
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security cam chronicles -
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see her squirt -
servere penetrations -
she has a negro problem -
shemales gone crazy -
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sleep invasion -
smut bus -
solo videos -
stracy stone -
street blowjobs -
street ranger -
suck it you whore -
swallow for cash -
sweet suckers -
team squirt -
teeny bopper club -
the big swallow -
the hoes we choked -
the mother fucker -
tina blaze -
tinys black adventures -
tongues and toys -
tranny surprise -
tug jobs -
ultimate sex pass -
vanessa teen -
vip crew -
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we live together -
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8th street latinas -
40 inch plus -
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all reality pass -
all sites access -
all star porn girls -
amazing footjobs -
anal in the amazon -
angels with dildos -
asian girl girl -
ass army -
ass arsenal -
ass parade -
bait bus -
ball honeys -
bangbros network -
bang bus -
banged babysitters -
bare bum mountain -
barefoot maniacs -
be the bitch -
big ass adventure -
big cock addiction -
big cock teen addiction -
big league facials -
big mouthfuls -
big naturals -
big tit patrol -
big tits round asses -
big titty bangers -
booty catchers -
boys first time -
brandi belle -
brit bangers -
bust that cherry -
busty adventures -
cam crush -
cams -
captain stabbin -
casting couch teens -
cfnm exposed -
cfnm idol -
classics of porn -
coeds need cash -
college teens book bang -
cumfiesta -
cum girls -
cumisha jones -
dangerous dongs -
dirty teachers pet -
download pass -
drilled and filled -
ebony internal -
erotic spank -
escort trick -
euro sex parties -
fill my pink -
first time auditions -
fling -
flower tucci -
freaks of porn -
gangbang facial -
giants black meat white treat -
her thick black ass -
horny spanish flies -
huge gay pass -
huge movie pass -
in focus girls -
intense penetrations -
internal explosions -
in the vip -
i spy camel toe -
jerk that cock bitch -
kelsey xxx -
knocked up nina -
latina girl girl -
lesbian teen hunter -
little naughty nymphos -
mandys diary -
mexxxi cunts -
midnight lurkers -
mike in brazil -
mikes apartment -
milf hunter -
milf lessons -
milf next door -
money talks -
monsters of cock -
mr big dicks hot chicks -
mr cameltoe -
mr chews asian beaver -
my busty girlfriend -
naughty indian girls -
ox pass -
panties and fannies -
papi -
pimp my black teen -
please bang my wife -
pov squirt alert -
public invasion -
pump that ass -
real dp dolls -
real hooker videos -
reality kings -
reality pass plus -
real orgasms -
real teens kissing -
round and brown -
round mound of ass -
sammy4u -
sapphic erotica -
security cam chronicles -
security cam sex -
see her squirt -
servere penetrations -
she has a negro problem -
shemales gone crazy -
shemale ultra -
slap that butt -
sleep invasion -
smut bus -
solo videos -
stracy stone -
street blowjobs -
street ranger -
suck it you whore -
swallow for cash -
sweet suckers -
team squirt -
teeny bopper club -
the big swallow -
the hoes we choked -
the mother fucker -
tina blaze -
tinys black adventures -
tongues and toys -
tranny surprise -
tug jobs -
ultimate sex pass -
vanessa teen -
vip crew -
voyeur intrusion -
we live together -
whore gaggers -
wild party whores -
xxx proposal -
tug jobs -
8th street latinas -
40 inch plus -
adult friend finder -
all reality pass -
all sites access -
all star porn girls -
amazing footjobs -
anal in the amazon -
angels with dildos -
asian girl girl -
ass army -
ass arsenal -
ass parade -
bait bus -
ball honeys -
bangbros network -
bang bus -
banged babysitters -
bare bum mountain -
barefoot maniacs -
be the bitch -
big ass adventure -
big cock addiction -
big cock teen addiction -
big league facials -
big mouthfuls -
big naturals -
big tit patrol -
big tits round asses -
big titty bangers -
booty catchers -
boys first time -
brandi belle -
brit bangers -
bust that cherry -
busty adventures -
cam crush -
cams -
captain stabbin -
casting couch teens -
cfnm exposed -
cfnm idol -
classics of porn -
coeds need cash -
college teens book bang -
cumfiesta -
cum girls -
cumisha jones -
dangerous dongs -
dirty teachers pet -
download pass -
drilled and filled -
ebony internal -
erotic spank -
escort trick -
euro sex parties -
fill my pink -
first time auditions -
fling -
flower tucci -
freaks of porn -
gangbang facial -
giants black meat white treat -
her thick black ass -
horny spanish flies -
huge gay pass -
huge movie pass -
in focus girls -
intense penetrations -
internal explosions -
in the vip -
i spy camel toe -
jerk that cock bitch -
kelsey xxx -
knocked up nina -
latina girl girl -
lesbian teen hunter -
little naughty nymphos -
mandys diary -
mexxxi cunts -
midnight lurkers -
mike in brazil -
mikes apartment -
milf hunter -
milf lessons -
milf next door -
money talks -
monsters of cock -
mr big dicks hot chicks -
mr cameltoe -
mr chews asian beaver -
my busty girlfriend -
naughty indian girls -
ox pass -
panties and fannies -
papi -
pimp my black teen -
please bang my wife -
pov squirt alert -
public invasion -
pump that ass -
real dp dolls -
real hooker videos -
reality kings -
reality pass plus -
real orgasms -
real teens kissing -
round and brown -
round mound of ass -
sammy4u -
sapphic erotica -
security cam chronicles -
security cam sex -
see her squirt -
servere penetrations -
she has a negro problem -
shemales gone crazy -
shemale ultra -
slap that butt -
sleep invasion -
smut bus -
solo videos -
stracy stone -
street blowjobs -
street ranger -
suck it you whore -
swallow for cash -
sweet suckers -
team squirt -
teeny bopper club -
the big swallow -
the hoes we choked -
the mother fucker -
tina blaze -
tinys black adventures -
tongues and toys -
tranny surprise -
tug jobs -
ultimate sex pass -
vanessa teen -
vip crew -
voyeur intrusion -
we live together -
whore gaggers -
wild party whores -
xxx proposal -
ball honeys -
8th street latinas -
40 inch plus -
adult friend finder -
all reality pass -
all sites access -
all star porn girls -
amazing footjobs -
anal in the amazon -
angels with dildos -
asian girl girl -
ass army -
ass arsenal -
ass parade -
bait bus -
ball honeys -
bangbros network -
bang bus -
banged babysitters -
bare bum mountain -
barefoot maniacs -
be the bitch -
big ass adventure -
big cock addiction -
big cock teen addiction -
big league facials -
big mouthfuls -
big naturals -
big tit patrol -
big tits round asses -
big titty bangers -
booty catchers -
boys first time -
brandi belle -
brit bangers -
bust that cherry -
busty adventures -
cam crush -
cams -
captain stabbin -
casting couch teens -
cfnm exposed -
cfnm idol -
classics of porn -
coeds need cash -
college teens book bang -
cumfiesta -
cum girls -
cumisha jones -
dangerous dongs -
dirty teachers pet -
download pass -
drilled and filled -
ebony internal -
erotic spank -
escort trick -
euro sex parties -
fill my pink -
first time auditions -
fling -
flower tucci -
freaks of porn -
gangbang facial -
giants black meat white treat -
her thick black ass -
horny spanish flies -
huge gay pass -
huge movie pass -
in focus girls -
intense penetrations -
internal explosions -
in the vip -
i spy camel toe -
jerk that cock bitch -
kelsey xxx -
knocked up nina -
latina girl girl -
lesbian teen hunter -
little naughty nymphos -
mandys diary -
mexxxi cunts -
midnight lurkers -
mike in brazil -
mikes apartment -
milf hunter -
milf lessons -
milf next door -
money talks -
monsters of cock -
mr big dicks hot chicks -
mr cameltoe -
mr chews asian beaver -
my busty girlfriend -
naughty indian girls -
ox pass -
panties and fannies -
papi -
pimp my black teen -
please bang my wife -
pov squirt alert -
public invasion -
pump that ass -
real dp dolls -
real hooker videos -
reality kings -
reality pass plus -
real orgasms -
real teens kissing -
round and brown -
round mound of ass -
sammy4u -
sapphic erotica -
security cam chronicles -
security cam sex -
see her squirt -
servere penetrations -
she has a negro problem -
shemales gone crazy -
shemale ultra -
slap that butt -
sleep invasion -
smut bus -
solo videos -
stracy stone -
street blowjobs -
street ranger -
suck it you whore -
swallow for cash -
sweet suckers -
team squirt -
teeny bopper club -
the big swallow -
the hoes we choked -
the mother fucker -
tina blaze -
tinys black adventures -
tongues and toys -
tranny surprise -
tug jobs -
ultimate sex pass -
vanessa teen -
vip crew -
voyeur intrusion -
we live together -
whore gaggers -
wild party whores -
xxx proposal -
bangbros network -
8th street latinas -
40 inch plus -
adult friend finder -
all reality pass -
all sites access -
all star porn girls -
amazing footjobs -
anal in the amazon -
angels with dildos -
asian girl girl -
ass army -
ass arsenal -
ass parade -
bait bus -
ball honeys -
bangbros network -
bang bus -
banged babysitters -
bare bum mountain -
barefoot maniacs -
be the bitch -
big ass adventure -
big cock addiction -
big cock teen addiction -
big league facials -
big mouthfuls -
big naturals -
big tit patrol -
big tits round asses -
big titty bangers -
booty catchers -
boys first time -
brandi belle -
brit bangers -
bust that cherry -
busty adventures -
cam crush -
cams -
captain stabbin -
casting couch teens -
cfnm exposed -
cfnm idol -
classics of porn -
coeds need cash -
college teens book bang -
cumfiesta -
cum girls -
cumisha jones -
dangerous dongs -
dirty teachers pet -
download pass -
drilled and filled -
ebony internal -
erotic spank -
escort trick -
euro sex parties -
fill my pink -
first time auditions -
fling -
flower tucci -
freaks of porn -
gangbang facial -
giants black meat white treat -
her thick black ass -
horny spanish flies -
huge gay pass -
huge movie pass -
in focus girls -
intense penetrations -
internal explosions -
in the vip -
i spy camel toe -
jerk that cock bitch -
kelsey xxx -
knocked up nina -
latina girl girl -
lesbian teen hunter -
little naughty nymphos -
mandys diary -
mexxxi cunts -
midnight lurkers -
mike in brazil -
mikes apartment -
milf hunter -
milf lessons -
milf next door -
money talks -
monsters of cock -
mr big dicks hot chicks -
mr cameltoe -
mr chews asian beaver -
my busty girlfriend -
naughty indian girls -
ox pass -
panties and fannies -
papi -
pimp my black teen -
please bang my wife -
pov squirt alert -
public invasion -
pump that ass -
real dp dolls -
real hooker videos -
reality kings -
reality pass plus -
real orgasms -
real teens kissing -
round and brown -
round mound of ass -
sammy4u -
sapphic erotica -
security cam chronicles -
security cam sex -
see her squirt -
servere penetrations -
she has a negro problem -
shemales gone crazy -
shemale ultra -
slap that butt -
sleep invasion -
smut bus -
solo videos -
stracy stone -
street blowjobs -
street ranger -
suck it you whore -
swallow for cash -
sweet suckers -
team squirt -
teeny bopper club -
the big swallow -
the hoes we choked -
the mother fucker -
tina blaze -
tinys black adventures -
tongues and toys -
tranny surprise -
tug jobs -
ultimate sex pass -
vanessa teen -
vip crew -
voyeur intrusion -
we live together -
whore gaggers -
wild party whores -
xxx proposal -

 
At 6:32 AM, October 16, 2008, Blogger kevin said...

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At 5:38 PM, May 07, 2009, Blogger Carmoca said...

Wow. That was like reading a script about what happened with me. I just recently placed my resume online with CareerBuilder.com. Two days later I get an email from "Oklahoma Professional Search" and how they'd like to discuss my excellent skill-set. Not thinking I'm about to be scammed I reply and send them my resume. They respond quickly with an appointment, no details about the position I'm interviewing for and to dress professionally. I break the seal on my freshly pressed suit, drive the hour to get there and arrive a few minutes early. I'm offered water and a clipboard to fill out. A few minutes pass and I'm brought into an office of the Vice President. He immediately begins to tell me how impressed he is with my skillset. A few minutes into this (having asked me no particular questions, I begin to get the feeling that this isn't an interview but a sales pitch. I began probing him about the positions being offered at his company and opens a binder about how the good positions are only filled via word of mouth by "those in the know". I asked a few more questions which he deftly dodged and I knew they wanted money. They made a pitch about how 80% of people fit into the 'no focus' category and only 20% fit into the 'with focus' category. Apparently, I fit into the 20%. He mentioned this because I stated I targeted one of the companies I applied for. I believe that was his exit strategy because they offered me no future appointments. These people, IMHO, are preying upon people that have found themselves unemployed. Since they never offered any 'plan' or 'services' I can't say they were scammers. However, they didn't offer an names of employers, either. I DO believe I was misled by these people by being told to 'dress professionally.' Save your suits for real interviews and dump these people into the spam folder.

Also, this blog-page is being exploited because the adult content listed in some of the posts will not be displayed in some people results as GOOGLE and other search engines try to squash those posts as being irrelevant because of the adult nature of some of the terms. Erase those 'adult' posts and your blog will see the light of day.

 
At 9:02 PM, May 15, 2009, Blogger Paul said...

Add NCBI in Dallas Texas to that list. Same as the ITS.

After the resume review and change...staged interview...you are on your own.

 
At 2:52 PM, June 11, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just left an interview with "Oklahoma Professional Search". It is scary how close the story is to the interview, oh I mean sales pitch. I had the same experience as Carmoca. Walked in, an older man, the "Vice President" gave me a clip board to fill out and a cup of water.

I stayed for the whole pitch, trying to figure out if it was a scam or the real thing. He wouldn't let me out the door unless I made a follow-up interview that my wife would come to. At this point I figured something fishy was going on.

Then I found this blog when I was searching for more information about Oklahoma Professional Search. I called back and asked point blank if they were going to ask for money at the end of the second meeting, the guy choked up and finally admitted that there was a fee for their service. Although I think he was trying to get around actually admitting that.

Thank you everyone for posting here, it has saved me who knows how many troubles.

I am just angry that they are preying on the unemployed. I wasted my time, gas, and ink (which I am almost out of)!!

 
At 4:18 PM, July 20, 2009, Blogger Jason said...

I just received a call today setting up an appt., thinking that one of my job-apps had gotten through - I asked who they were again, since I had applied to so many, the name didn't ring a bell - that's because I never applied to them... Glad I decided to do a job-search - thank God for people like you-all who take the time to post their experiences. I'm cancelling the meeting.

 
At 2:29 PM, September 09, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just "interviewed" with Oklahoma Professional Search in Tulsa, same song and dance. When I asked during the first meeting how much does this cost, you should have seen all of the sidetalking trying to derail me. At that point, our meeting ended with them still wanting me to bring in my wife. No way!!! Thanks to all of you who posted warning everyone of this group.

 
At 2:05 PM, September 19, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm shocked to come home after my "interview" to read these posts. I had an "interview" on Friday with Oklahoma Professional Search. When I asked Susan on the phone what the position was, she just said, "HR Executive". I was thrilled. But when an old creepy man came to greet me and asked me if I brought my resume- I knew something was not right. He told me to fill out paperwork while he looked at my resume....I thought...wouldn't you know what my resume looked like BEFORE you contacted me for a position. About 5 minutes into it, I just knew I had to shell out $$$ for their services. When I asked how much, he just beat around the bush saying that they negotiate the price with the company that would hire me....BS!!! I came home and told my husband that the guy wanted to meet with the both us and we just started LAUGHING! What a joke....I wrote him an email and said I was NOT coming for no second interview...NO THANK YOU SCAMMER!!!
Thanks everyone for your posts

 
At 7:07 PM, September 24, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the info!! I actually had my first appointment scheduled with them tomorrow. I just read this and called to cancel it. Thank you thank you thank you... I need a job, not to have my time occupied by some scam!

 
At 5:24 PM, November 03, 2009, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Creepy man! LOL that is exactly how someone else phrased it " same song same dance"
just had an "interview" and im not going for a second one.

although the Old man was a good sales man. i'll give him that.

Thanks for the posts

 
At 4:13 PM, January 06, 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the heads up.

 
At 2:50 PM, January 28, 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

all they want is money..will they get you a job..hell no...you get assigned some old woman..who prefers to talk about herself then help you with a job..........dont go back

 
At 2:54 PM, January 28, 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

scAM...SCAM..AND SCAM...they ask for you wife to come back. Not for support because they want your money. Never ever pay pre before anything...this company will either go down or go by another name..Oklahoma Professional Search or OPS is or was JL Kirk Associates...same pitch, same scam Went twice now, and each time got the run around until the end of saying you need to pay us 4K?? NO..

 
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I experienced the same thing was called stating they had an opening, showed up and there was no opening it was all made up to get me to return with my spouse. I am glad I read this, I didnt book due to my skepticism but now I am glad I didnt and I wont be calling them back.

 
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